Problems with record offset

[Axl]

Hi,

it's me again. So far, I haven't been able to get Augustus and Live to play tightly together. I have enabled the Trigger Arm button to exclude at least one of the controller tabs as an error source. When I record a loop with Augustus without any record offset and record it in live (synced to Augustus) I get this:



As you can see, the end of the loop reaches into the beginning of the clip recording. So, the loop always starts too late in relation to Live's clips.

When I play with record offset this doesn't change, but something else odd happens:



In this example I've set the offset rather high to about 2000 samples.

Now there is silence added to the beginning of the loop. I've made sure there is continous sound in the loop so it's not about what I played.

Additionally, I'm getting clicks when using the Trigger Arm function.

Any idea?

Axl

[os]

Hi,
I'm not 100% sure what you're doing here. Are you recording into Live and AL simultaneously? Or are you recording the output of AL into a Live clip? Or something else?
Maybe if you posted a screenshot of your Live session it would make things clearer. Or mail me the Live file.
cheers,
os.

[Axl]

Are you recording into Live and AL simultaneously? Or are you recording the output of AL into a Live clip? Or something else?

I record the output of AL into a Live clip. Basically to get some kind of visual indicator for the timing discrepancies I hear between the loop recorded in AL and the drumloop I'm playing in Live synced to AL. The look of the waveforms corresponds pretty well with the way I hear it.

Here's a screenshot of the Live set. I patch my guitar into the Git Input channel where it goes through Amplitube Duo and then to the tracks that hold the various loops including the looper track with AL in it.

[os]

Thanks for the screenshot, that makes it clearer.

Two questions:
- does Amplitube Duo introduce latency?
- what are your audio and plug-in buffer sizes set to in Live's prefs?

[Axl]

- does Amplitube Duo introduce latency?
- what are your audio and plug-in buffer sizes set to in Live's prefs?

At the moment, I'm running my guitar and vocals through a Line 6 UX 2. I don't run Gearbox (the line 6 amp simulation app) at all so the signal goes straight into Live. The buffer size is 252 samples and Live says input latency is 8.5 ms and output latency is 10.3 ms. I'm sure Amplitube also introduces some latency but probably not much because playing feels okay. I can't find a way to check Live's plugin latency compensation. Plugin buffer size is 128.

I must admit my understanding of this latency thing is not very deep.

[os]

252 samples seems quite high to me. Also, you might want to try setting the plug-in buffer size to 'same as audio buffer'.

Live's latency compensation doesn't come into the equation here because it's irrelevant for live audio - compensation can only be applied when playing back recorded stuff.

I'm surprised that AL's Record Offset makes no difference at all to the timing - that's basically what it's there for. Could you double check that?

thanks,
os.

[Axl]

I've sent you an email with my testing live set. All the other stuff works great, by the way. What I forgot to mention in the email, the second looper in the set doesn't do anything right now.

Oh, and can I make a feature request? A resetValues function that reverts the plugin to the state it was loaded (the preset) would be great, especially when you have four instances running and fiddle around with a lot of the fx.

[os]

Thanks, I'll take a look.

[os]

I just spent some time testing this setup - Live sync'd to AL, using Trigger Arm to trigger Tap Rec, and manually closing the loop.

It seems to work pretty well. I wonder if you just need to use higher record offset values. My setup uses a buffer size of 93 samples, giving an overall latency of 7.3ms, and I found an offset of about 1500 put the loop dead on the beat when recorded back into Live, as you're doing.

[Axl]

Damnit, for no apparent reason kvr didn't send me an email notification so I haven't read your post until now. Hmmm, I will do some more testing. Can I change the record offset in realtime or do I have to record a new loop or even reload the plugin for changes to take effect? As I wrote, I haven't been able to really notice a difference when changing settings.

[os]

You can change the setting in real-time, though you'll probably notice odd audio artefacts if you do so.

[Axl]

No success. When I apply the offset knob to an already recorded loop it changes exactly nothing. When I apply it before I record a loop it cuts off the beginning of the audio. What it does not is adjust the loop to the starting point of Live clips.

I upgraded to Live 7.0.12 and now something else weird happens: the number in the current delay time field underneath the delay slider oscillates between two numbers. In the bug fix list Ableton put out they write this version fixes an issue where Live would only show rounded values when synced to an external device. So, now Live shows a float value and Augustus loop doesn't want to dedicate itself to a fixed delay time. Changing the use rounded values for Live preference doesn't do anything about it.

Any ideas? I'm still hoping to get this to work.

Cheers,
Axl

[os]

Interesting, I'd not noticed that 7.0.12 change. That could affect a lot. I'll check it out.

[Axl]

Hi Os,

just wanted to ask if there are any new findings about what might be the cause of the problem?

[os]

Hi,
sorry, I (and my whole family) have succumbed to a series of colds and bugs, and so I just haven't been able to look at this for the last few weeks. I've not forgotten about it though - I will (eventually) get back to you.
cheers,
os.