Timbre change wav -> mp3

[phibeck]

Hi guys - l spend a lot of time and energy mixing my tracks just right - and then using just as much time on the mastering. I convert all files to 320 mp3 for preview purposes and to send over the Internet. However, even though I use the best quality compression (320 b/s) the timbre changes very noticably (for me anyway).

The bass gets a bit more boomy (but if I back off the EQ in the mix, it lacks depth in the wav file), and of course some of the descant disappears. And of course, everything sounds more "pressed together".

What I'm after would be a VST "mp3-plugin" that I could use the master mix track just like a normal vst effect - that would simulate the effect of converting the track to mp3.

Anyone heard of such a thing - or have any thoughts?

All comments welcomed!

[BertKoor]

The plugin you asked for doesn't exist yet afaik. But it has been requested before: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225445
At the end of that thread jussi3001 claimed to be very close to an actual implementation of it. Send him an email, and keep us posted on the results. Interesting idea, although I truely doubt the loss with 320kbps encoding is objectively noticeable.

[phibeck]

Hi Bert, I'll follow the thread and see if I can make contact and report back.

It really is noticable - if you play and ordinary wav file and then play the mp3 file right afterwards you will see what I mean. Its very noticabøe anyway when you've spend a lot of time getting it right, and then the eq response is changed in the mp3 file.

Will report back!

[kneelherring]

You could maybe try loading the mp3, Eq the mp3 to sound as it should, then apply that same eq setting to the uncompressed version, then resulting mp3's should sound more like the original uncompressed audio. A kind of pre-emphasis.

Less than ideal but perhaps helpful.

Though i will agree, a vst plugin would be far more preferable.

[phibeck]

Yeah I know - but it takes time (and sometimes I have to do it anyway)

Mix, master, export to wave. Check level. Convert to mp3, check level. Go back to DAW if not right.

I would like to check already at the mix stage without going to export.

But thanks for your comment - I have sent a mail to jussi - we'll see what he says.

[mhemnarch]

Hi guys - l spend a lot of time and energy mixing my tracks just right - and then using just as much time on the mastering. I convert all files to 320 mp3 for preview purposes and to send over the Internet. However, even though I use the best quality compression (320 b/s) the timbre changes very noticably (for me anyway).

The bass gets a bit more boomy (but if I back off the EQ in the mix, it lacks depth in the wav file), and of course some of the descant disappears. And of course, everything sounds more "pressed together".

What I'm after would be a VST "mp3-plugin" that I could use the master mix track just like a normal vst effect - that would simulate the effect of converting the track to mp3.

Anyone heard of such a thing - or have any thoughts?

All comments welcomed!

Are you playing the WAV and mp3 files in the same audio player? Which player would that be?

[Arksun]

Just out of interest, what are you using to convert to mp3?.

I like using the latest LAME encoder, quality level set to h (or q2, same diff). Not sure why but for some reason I find this works better for some material than the highest q0 quality setting.

[phibeck]

Sorry for the delay - Sussi responded to my e-mail - he didn't have such a plug-in at hand, but didn't think it would be too difficult to make, but I think he is talking commercial possibilities.

I use "Audio Cammander" on the highest quality setting (320) - and it's just not the EQ that sounds different after conversion.

Sure wish something like I outlined was available.

[Caysi]

I know it might sound a bit of a long shot but have you thought of mixing FOR mp3?

If that's how you intend to distribute your music then listen to the mp3, note anything you dont particularly like with the mix then change them in your DAW, rinse and repeat until you've got the desired sound.

[The Fex]

I use "Audio Cammander" on the highest quality setting (320) - and it's just not the EQ that sounds different after conversion.

I'm not familiar with AudioCommander, but it sounds like the problem is that it uses an inferior encoder. Try Audacity, CDex, or other software which supports or uses LAME.

[Goratrix]

use the latest version of LAME with the -V0 setting.

[afreshcupofjoe]

use the latest version of LAME with the -V0 setting.

+1

If you are using LAME at 320 you shouldn't hear a very noticeable timbre change. You are probably using an inferior codec or encoder. There are a lot of crappy ones out there, even in expensive software. LAME is excellent. Don't use anything else. If you need a front end, RazorLAME is great.

[phibeck]

That sounds like it might be the case - I'll look into the suggestions - especially LAME.

[xoxos]

i have no clue what codecs i'm using (win xp audio converter atm.. used loads over the years)

try different bitrates.. just last week i found that 256kbps chewed up the hats on an mp3 192kbps handled much better.

[ahjteam]

Do notice that mp3 does "things" to the song because it uses lossy codecing and majority of the loss happens at 13khz and above with 320 kbps, but with 128kbps you can actually hear that you lose a lot of hi mids too. Because of this, the sound changes, but the peaks will try to stay the same and the codec interpolates the peaks, but if they accidentally happen to be over the 0dbFS limit, they will sound like something that comes out of you after you eat.

Try this which I found out that helps in 90% of the cases: Normalize the wav to -0.6dbFS and then convert it to mp3 using LAME or some else quality mp3 codec and the difference shouldn't that drastic.