Does Knowledge of Theory Help You?

[Sixofour]

I've heard, "Well, Beethoven broke all the rules and re-wrote them...just like Eddie Van Halen."

Well, basically this is Shullbit. For both.
Somebody taught Eddie the pentatonic scale and he practiced it. He learned some stuff here and there. It didn't hinder him doing his stuff and influencing millions of guitar players.
So the real question should be: How much is good and useful FOR YOU? To me it's important to have theory available and to be able to just let music flow without thinking in theory terms. Then theory doesn't do any harm but does help because it doesn't enslave me but is an available tool to me. Like a plugin that I don't have to use but it waits for it's next gig.

Shogger

+1

[vurt]

One excellent aspect of knowing music theory is that you can listen to existing music, be it pop, big band, trance, or whatever, and deconstruct it in your head - on the fly -

for me personally this is one of the reasons i hate the fact i learned theory. i find i can no longer switch it off and just listen and enjoy, im forever counting time and listening for intervals and whatnot.

[hibidy]

One thing is for certain, some people have it.....ALLOT don't! Though practice and theory will help anyone, ya gotta have IT to be an eddie or a beethoven.

[vurt]

i dont see a connection between money and music.

Strictly on a personal level: I do see this connection very clearly. You may call this an unfortunate even, and I may even agree with you.
Originally, I always thought something like "yeah, music must come from the heart, it must be a thing of intuition, refelecting my inner feelings" etc.
But once you work as a musician, this is simply not the entire truth anymore.
Cheers
Sascha

as i said in my first post here, t depends what you require/desire from music.
and no i wouldnt say its an unfortunate event, unless you for some reason dont enjoy it.
im not looking to start a purer music from the heart or mind, i was trying to differentiate between the music business and the idea of music, if one is trying to make it in any medium, you should at least have some chops in there somewhere, if however youre making music because you enjoy the feeling of being creative for its own sake, then does theory make that any better?

id have to be honest and agree with you that it has made working with other musicians easier, but i really wish i could switch it off sometimes as it is a little like my own personal prison.

[Ogg Vorbis]

for me personally this is one of the reasons i hate the fact i learned theory. i find i can no longer switch it off and just listen and enjoy, im forever counting time and listening for intervals and whatnot.

That's a foregone conclusion for me. Of course I don't listen to music for enjoyment, I've passed that stage years ago. If I'm listening to music, I am slicing, dicing, poking, and analyzing the form, the harmony, the texture, the arrangement, the performance, the rhythms, the structure, etc., etc., constantly.

Isn't it normal for a musician to never listen to music like an audience member?

[vurt]

Isn't it normal for a musician to never listen to music like an audience member?

i hope not.

do you not remember the first time music "grabbed" you. before you did any research or learning, when you heard "that tune" that made you numb inside?
do you not enjoy getting lost in music? (making or listening?)
to turn everything into a process is something i really cant cope with.

im not trying to argue against the learning of theory, i didnt realise this was common, had i know this was such an expected thing though perhaps my decision to take the plunge would have gone the other way :/

dont get me wrong i do enjoy the benefits of knowing even the little i do(compared to some of you here) i like being able to play along a little with others, i enjoy listening to something a few times and being able to throw together a pretty good approximation of it, but to be able to switch off for a session of free listening would be heavenly

[shogger]

Isn't it normal for a musician to never listen to music like an audience member?

And that's a thing I'm convinced you can relearn! I did, as I had the same problem. I wasn't able to analyze NOT. Now I am again. I made the basic decision that I want to enjoy music. It's like "don't worry, be happy" I thought I can't but in fact I can. The same way I trained myself to always analyze I trained myself to only do it if I want to do it.

Shogger

[TristezaOrange]

for me personally this is one of the reasons i hate the fact i learned theory. i find i can no longer switch it off and just listen and enjoy, im forever counting time and listening for intervals and whatnot.

That's a foregone conclusion for me. Of course I don't listen to music for enjoyment, I've passed that stage years ago. If I'm listening to music, I am slicing, dicing, poking, and analyzing the form, the harmony, the texture, the arrangement, the performance, the rhythms, the structure, etc., etc., constantly.

Isn't it normal for a musician to never listen to music like an audience member?

Holy crap! It happens to me all the time. I listen to a traditional greek song and I start tapping my feet to figure out the time signature. I hear a chord progression and I have to know if what sounded like an augmented chord was really there or I misheard. It can get pretty tiring at times. Doesn't happen when I'm mildly (or more than mildly ) drunk, so at least I enjoy my nights out. If I'm not taking metronidazole.

[jplanet]

One excellent aspect of knowing music theory is that you can listen to existing music, be it pop, big band, trance, or whatever, and deconstruct it in your head - on the fly -

for me personally this is one of the reasons i hate the fact i learned theory. i find i can no longer switch it off and just listen and enjoy, im forever counting time and listening for intervals and whatnot.

It's so true - although I'm usually OK if I don't deliberately take the time to learn the song. I used to listen to Zeppelin's The Rain Song, and it seemed to be that something so beautiful could never be learned or understood in any kind of technical way. Years later I learned how to play it, and it definitely does not have the same impact or level enjoyment anymore. I think that's why I enjoy listening to prog so much - it's complex enough for me to not be able to figure it out...

But honestly, that goes for anything that you learn how to do. Once I learned how to build websites, every website I go to, I'm figuring out how the programmer did this or that...Same thing with cooking, when I started to really learn the techniques, I can't eat at any restaurant without thinking about how the food was made...

[tranel]

There has never been a decent jazz song.

Whoooaaaa..... let's just say that many, many, many, many, many people would disagree with you on that.

But, it would be interesting to hear a more in-depth argument here.

[Sixofour]

There has never been a decent jazz song.

Whoooaaaa..... let's just say that many, many, many, many, many people would disagree with you on that.

But, it would be interesting to hear a more in-depth argument here.

An arguement for my opinion?

Well lets see...I don't like Jazz, thats the argument. Most jazz songs give me a negative feeling. And a very deep feeling of irritation. The way i would describe the norms of jazz is sound that does everything that annoys me. Kinda like when you have a scale that sounds good, and the person goes offkey..it just erks you. Its the same when I hear jazz. Its like listening to someone scratch their nails on chalkboards. The feeling i get of it.

Also some of the instruments used..like, most brass instruments. Especially the most aweful instrument in existance, the saxaphone. Its like, WHOAAAAAAAA, i want to slay myself when i hear that aweful sound.

The mood also, jazz just screms this smug happy gay feeling.

Yeah thats pretty much my arguement, the people who make it lsiten to it are annoying, the norms and standards are horrible, and the instruments used are atrochious.

[vurt]

The mood also, jazz just screms this smug happy gay feeling.

not heard much jazz have you?

[aciddose]

you just need to realize "jazz" is a similar genre compared to say "rock", or "electronic". you can have house, then you can have gabber, then you can have old style electro (kraftwerk, YMO, etc) and yet these are all "electronic". the same range of styles exists in "jazz". (one might define samba as jazz.. although what do i know?)

[Sixofour]

What i have heard is this bluesy type stuff. Some guy blazing away on a saxaphone with another guy banging out a metal beat on some drums, with a latino on keyboard. Or another random selection like this.

[debra1rlo]

I've got no kick against modern jazz


Unless they try to play it too darn fast