Whale's scales?
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- KVRist
- 326 posts since 12 Sep, 2008 from Trappe MD
What is the scale of the song of a whale? Serious question, could prove to be an interesting inspiration for some songs.
GENERATION 30: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35433 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
what makes you assume it has a scale? does human speech?kajiotaku wrote:What is the scale of the song of a whale? Serious question, could prove to be an interesting inspiration for some songs.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRian
- 829 posts since 9 Nov, 2008 from Pile of Shite
All fish have scales. Duh.
Yes, I know a whale is not a fish. It's actually an insect.
Yes, I know a whale is not a fish. It's actually an insect.
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
It would be really interesting if you could model the effects of the ocean and the shape of a whale's ear membrane that has evolved to a specialized underwater environment over millions of years. I bet what they hear in terms of pitch would be only dimly related to what our "moving air" based ears hear.
As it turns out, I bet if you factor all these issues in, it will turn out that they really have been singing variations on "I've been working on the railroad" all this time.
As it turns out, I bet if you factor all these issues in, it will turn out that they really have been singing variations on "I've been working on the railroad" all this time.
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- KVRAF
- 6519 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from UK
Can white whales sing the blues?
Now with improved MIDI jitter!
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- KVRian
- 829 posts since 9 Nov, 2008 from Pile of Shite
No. Blue whales might sing the whites, however....
"Two groups of whales, the Humpback Whale and the subspecies of Blue Whale found in the Indian Ocean, are known to produce the repetitious sounds at varying frequencies known as whale song. Marine biologist Philip Clapham describes the song as "probably the most complex in the animal kingdom".
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The songs follow a distinct hierarchical structure. The base units of the song (sometimes loosely called the "notes") are single uninterrupted emissions of sound that last up to a few seconds. These sounds vary in frequency from 20 Hz to 10 kHz (the typical human range of hearing is 20 Hz to 20 kHz). The units may be frequency modulated (i.e., the pitch of the sound may go up, down, or stay the same during the note) or amplitude modulated (get louder or quieter). However the adjustment of bandwidth on a spectrogram representation of the song reveals the essentially pulsed nature of the FM sounds.
A collection of four or six units is known as a sub-phrase, lasting perhaps ten seconds. A collection of two sub-phrases is a phrase. A whale will typically repeat the same phrase over and over for two to four minutes. This is known as a theme. A collection of themes is known as a song. The whale will repeat the same song, which last up to 30 or so minutes, over and over again over the course of hours or even days."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_song
"All Blue Whale groups make calls at a fundamental frequency of between 10 and 40 Hz, and the lowest frequency sound a human can typically perceive is 20 Hz. Blue Whale calls last between ten and thirty seconds. Additionally Blue Whales off the coast of Sri Lanka have been recorded repeatedly making "songs" of four notes duration lasting about two minutes each, reminiscent of the well-known Humpback Whale songs."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_whale_songs
"Two groups of whales, the Humpback Whale and the subspecies of Blue Whale found in the Indian Ocean, are known to produce the repetitious sounds at varying frequencies known as whale song. Marine biologist Philip Clapham describes the song as "probably the most complex in the animal kingdom".
....
The songs follow a distinct hierarchical structure. The base units of the song (sometimes loosely called the "notes") are single uninterrupted emissions of sound that last up to a few seconds. These sounds vary in frequency from 20 Hz to 10 kHz (the typical human range of hearing is 20 Hz to 20 kHz). The units may be frequency modulated (i.e., the pitch of the sound may go up, down, or stay the same during the note) or amplitude modulated (get louder or quieter). However the adjustment of bandwidth on a spectrogram representation of the song reveals the essentially pulsed nature of the FM sounds.
A collection of four or six units is known as a sub-phrase, lasting perhaps ten seconds. A collection of two sub-phrases is a phrase. A whale will typically repeat the same phrase over and over for two to four minutes. This is known as a theme. A collection of themes is known as a song. The whale will repeat the same song, which last up to 30 or so minutes, over and over again over the course of hours or even days."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_song
"All Blue Whale groups make calls at a fundamental frequency of between 10 and 40 Hz, and the lowest frequency sound a human can typically perceive is 20 Hz. Blue Whale calls last between ten and thirty seconds. Additionally Blue Whales off the coast of Sri Lanka have been recorded repeatedly making "songs" of four notes duration lasting about two minutes each, reminiscent of the well-known Humpback Whale songs."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_whale_songs
Last edited by The Fex on Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 9590 posts since 17 Sep, 2002 from Gothenburg Sweden
nuffink wrote:Can white whales sing the blues?
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- KVRian
- 829 posts since 9 Nov, 2008 from Pile of Shite
Oops, my mistake....
"Most other whales and dolphins produce sounds of varying degrees of complexity. Of particular interest is the Beluga (the "sea canary") which produces an immense variety of whistles, clicks and pulses, and does a mean version of "Goin' Down Slow". *
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_song ... ale_sounds
* I may have made up the last bit.
"Most other whales and dolphins produce sounds of varying degrees of complexity. Of particular interest is the Beluga (the "sea canary") which produces an immense variety of whistles, clicks and pulses, and does a mean version of "Goin' Down Slow". *
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_song ... ale_sounds
* I may have made up the last bit.
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- angelboy
- 4586 posts since 21 Aug, 2001 from Larnaca, Cyprus
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- KVRian
- 829 posts since 9 Nov, 2008 from Pile of Shite
No, because the Orca, or "Killer Whale", is, in fact, a dolphin.
No, really.
No, really.
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
True, but dolphins are whales by some definitions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odontoceti
More fuzzy sets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odontoceti
More fuzzy sets.
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Aroused by JarJar Aroused by JarJar https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=191505
- KVRian
- 1048 posts since 16 Oct, 2008
You can derive scales from practically anything of course. Thinking of scales as the "source" is kind of backwards.
Having done quite a bit with whale song, sampling for sampling synthesis and listening/measuring for musical structures like phrases and "scales", I've found that the long held tones of definite pitch (the ones that make you think, hey I could derive a scale from this) are slow slides up or down of a few to many Hz. So you can listen/measure to just a part of it, or try to find the "average" pitch of it by ear and frequency analysis (this is what I've done), if you're looking for "notes".
Since there is so much whale song and it is so rich and varied, I couldn't begin to say what would be "typical" scales, I just pick out what I dig and so it all turns out to be quite similar to my other various tunings. At any rate whale song resampled and stretched very high makes eerily human/angelic choirs.
Gibbons are a great source too, they definitely sing, with strong, consistent and identifiable structures, their own personal tunes and duets. Birds can be pretty difficult as far as finding definite pitches, I've found. Then you find that a cuckoo bird's dropping third varies not only by region but by individual and according to the weather (gets more minor as it gets colder). The late-summer/early fall cuckoo call I've measured had a third of 369 cents, very nice.
Having done quite a bit with whale song, sampling for sampling synthesis and listening/measuring for musical structures like phrases and "scales", I've found that the long held tones of definite pitch (the ones that make you think, hey I could derive a scale from this) are slow slides up or down of a few to many Hz. So you can listen/measure to just a part of it, or try to find the "average" pitch of it by ear and frequency analysis (this is what I've done), if you're looking for "notes".
Since there is so much whale song and it is so rich and varied, I couldn't begin to say what would be "typical" scales, I just pick out what I dig and so it all turns out to be quite similar to my other various tunings. At any rate whale song resampled and stretched very high makes eerily human/angelic choirs.
Gibbons are a great source too, they definitely sing, with strong, consistent and identifiable structures, their own personal tunes and duets. Birds can be pretty difficult as far as finding definite pitches, I've found. Then you find that a cuckoo bird's dropping third varies not only by region but by individual and according to the weather (gets more minor as it gets colder). The late-summer/early fall cuckoo call I've measured had a third of 369 cents, very nice.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 326 posts since 12 Sep, 2008 from Trappe MD
Ok, well I'm downloading some examples of whale songs and I'm going to split it into distinctive notes and use DirectWave's "find root pitch" function to map out a scale and share it with you all. More help would still be nice. Also, couldn't the pitch sliding just be like portamello?
GENERATION 30: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
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Aroused by JarJar Aroused by JarJar https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=191505
- KVRian
- 1048 posts since 16 Oct, 2008
Cool! Looking forward to it. Yes, like portamento. You have to make some judgement calls about pitch when there's portamento.kajiotaku wrote:Ok, well I'm downloading some examples of whale songs and I'm going to split it into distinctive notes and use DirectWave's "find root pitch" function to map out a scale and share it with you all. More help would still be nice. Also, couldn't the pitch sliding just be like portamello?