ReTank - cumbersome to use

[monday]

[mod edit: I've split this post from the ReTank FAQs topic]

Is it just me, or is this thing incredibly cumbersome to use? i mean it's like the rex format hasn't been invented. From the promotional hype, i expected a rex player type upgrade to sampletank -like RMX or dr rex.

instead you have to audition each loop individually by loading it as an instrument and playing key b1. There is no way of auditioning it in context of something you have already done unless the bpm happens to be the same. Even if you workout you like it, you then have to locate the specific loop in all of the folders amongst your sampletank instrument context and load the associated midi file into your DAW, then assign a new midi track to sampletank?!?

This feels like about five years ago! A lot of the content does sound, ahem, recycled though! Nothing wrong with that because some of it's good but why not just offer it in rex file format as an option?

Disappointing

[DarkStar]

I'm sorry that you're disapppinted with ReTank.

ReTank is not REX loops. Sonic Reality took the RX2 loops from their previous products (the RAW Pak and REX Pak series) and converted them to the SampleTank format. If you would like the REX format or the RX2, Apple loops and .wav (RAW) formats have a look on www.esoundz.com

Direct support of RX2 loops and of dragging the MIDI files from ST2 to your host would need to be implemented by IKMM. But, I agree, it would be good to have. In SampleTank you can use the Tempo control or the Stretch controls to modify the loop before audition it.

I would agree that SampleTank 2 can be a bit awkaward to get to grips with. But persevere, I certainly found it worth it. And, yes, there's several features that IKMM could add to improve it.

With ReTank came over 4,500 loops in several genres and the standard SampleTank 2L sounds and a bonus VST(i). That can't be bad.

----
Edit:
To make thing easier for me, I have split out the MIDI files into a parallel series of folders and put them in a different folder:
-- copy the complete ReTank Loops library,
-- search for all the MIDI files (.mid) in the original Library - delete them,
-- search for all the SampleTank files (.st) in the copied library - delete them,
You'll end up with 2 sets of folders with the same sub-folder structure, one containing the ReTank sounds library, the other containing the MIDI files.

HTH

[bassman63]

Darkstar,

sorry if this is not the best place to reply w.r.t. the ReTank MIDI clip management.

I've been a Toontrack product user and I have TT's EzPlayer Pro which came with Superior 2.0.

I have just drag & drop'ed the ReTank library folder into EZPlayer Pro; I've been happily using EZPP with SampleTank&Retank under Cubase, Reaper 2.53 and Traction 3. You don't have to split the contents in this way...
If you happen to have EZP or any other MIDI clip browser with play back function, I strongly recommend using it with ReTank... just my 2 yen worth from Tokyo.

[Squids]

Well, we didn't make SampleTank, we can only request features for it. Pre-auditioning samples from the browser WOULD be a good feature especially for loops. I've always felt that the technology in SampleTank would suit itself particularly for these type of slice/midi loops. Sure, the software isn't DESIGNED to the loops but more the other way around. As best we could! You get the full loop and then the individual slices already mapped across the keyboard and its corresponding midi right next to the sound. It may not be AS quick as using loops in other dedicated loop players BUT it is actually a MORE powerful system than most of them! Why? Well, first, you use the midi in your sequencer which, depending on the one you choose to use, is more powerful and capable than any loop player's built-in midi/loop slice playback ability. Then combining that with SampleTank and the way you can edit slice by slice with a FULL synth engine that has several different types of time stretching modes... it is REALLY powerful! Plus, you can turn velocity to amp on for any of the slices and instantly give them dynamics and just PLAY them from the keyboard which is great for a lot of urban and electronic styles (when you WANT it choppy - like stabs and effects) or for ANY style when the slices just happen to work well as replayed instruments.

You can get a lot of unexpected happy surprises messing around with them and this "non-deliberate" method can yield some great results in creative hands. As a proficient keyboard player myself I find replaying ReTank loops to be a great source of cool accidental discoveries. Things I wouldn't have thought of maybe as a keyboardist but just messing around something quirky comes out that I like. So there are many ways to use them. They MAY very well be more cumbersome to use than just buying some of our REX files and dragging them into a Dr. Rex or picking up some of our RMX paks for Stylus RMX if you like... or our Apple Loops or Acidized Waves (you can't say Sonic Reality doesn't offer a range of loop formats!!! haha). But, ReTank for SampleTank has its purpose or we wouldn't have done it. I didn't even mention the convenience of processing them with the powerful internal effects, combining loops for polyrythms and save them back as combis... SOooooooooo many cool things you can do.

Now, I will tell ya that ReTank Loops and the whole concept is BRAND NEW. It hasn't even been released as an "Official" product with IK yet which we're hoping to do some time next year. Maybe by that time a few features can be added to ST too! So feel free to request them (there is a SampleTank feature request thread going in our forum... but remember we're Sonic Reality and we make just SOUNDS not the software... we can only beg nicely to our partners for those features on your behalf which we have done for years).

Sorry you're disappointed but maybe with these things in mind you can get into it some more and give it another go. We'll also eventually be doing video demos like I have done for other ST-related products and I think those tips help to see in action. I really wanted to have it NOW for the GB but we just couldn't get that and everything else preparing for the upcoming NAMM show done at the same time. But each week I think maybe I can squeeze it in because I REALLY want to show you guys how cool this stuff is. Maybe someone else can do their own youtube video who understands the various ways you can work with these. I am sure there are ideas people have that I haven't thought of either. You pretty much have a smattering of tools to work with there between SampleTank and your sequencer. It might "seem" old school to work with the midi in your sequencer but that's a shame because your sequencer likely took YEARS and YEARS to have the powerful features it has for quantizing and editing. Why not use them?

[kitekrazy]

I like the ReTank format. It allows easy manipulation of a loop.
It would be cool if you developed your own player for them.

[strav100]

It would be cool if you could do a step-by-step tutorial on how to use the ReTank loops:-

1)Setting up the folders and the MIDI files
2)Loading them into Sampletank and simple manipulation
3)Hardcore deep editing - mashing and warping the loops

I think all the GB buyers would love this! Perhaps a pdf put in the download area of esoundz with the sound packages

[Squids]

Since we're offering more ReTank Style Paks in the NEW group buy: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 00#3360200

We may try to accompany that with a tutorial of sorts with tips on how to use it. So it will be for both the people of that last Group Buy and anyone who joins the new one and chooses the ReTank options... out of 5 different options!

[Jus11]

There's a free EZ Player, which one can use with ReTank loops in a way described above. Quite handy - I just wish there was a keyboard short cut in Sampletank for next/previous! I haven't tried Ez Player Pro yet; I guess it is even handier?

Anyway, already using the EZ Player Free & ST combination makes one shortly notice, that in addition to the "official" 3000 ReTank loops the combinations of different ReTank midi loop files (in EZ) and different ReTank loop instruments (in ST) produce hundreds of useful loops more. Or, in principle, possibly thousands and thousands more; if my math is correct, you've got 3000 times 3000 options to choose from

Squids, this may have been answered elsewhere, but how much of the stuff in the ReTank group buy was the same than in the individual ReTanks in the new December group buy?

[cwig]

There's a free EZ Player,

But where is it? This link

http://www.toontrack.com/ezplayer_free.asp

is redirected to the Pro page.

[Jus11]

There's a free EZ Player,

But where is it? This link

http://www.toontrack.com/ezplayer_free.asp

is redirected to the Pro page.

Oh, I see. Seems like Toontrack offers no more Ez Player Free option.

[Squids]

There's a free EZ Player, which one can use with ReTank loops in a way described above. Quite handy - I just wish there was a keyboard short cut in Sampletank for next/previous! I haven't tried Ez Player Pro yet; I guess it is even handier?

Anyway, already using the EZ Player Free & ST combination makes one shortly notice, that in addition to the "official" 3000 ReTank loops the combinations of different ReTank midi loop files (in EZ) and different ReTank loop instruments (in ST) produce hundreds of useful loops more. Or, in principle, possibly thousands and thousands more; if my math is correct, you've got 3000 times 3000 options to choose from

Squids, this may have been answered elsewhere, but how much of the stuff in the ReTank group buy was the same than in the individual ReTanks in the new December group buy?

Not much at all. There's maybe 10% of each (if that) of the loops in the ReTank Style Paks that would be in the main ReTank sound set. So these are really meant to EXPAND you collection.

[Gyu]

Ive had an issue with ReTank loops when it comes to layering drums sounds, some of the drums are not sliced accurately at the start so they can't be layered. This is frustrating, is there any solution?
thanks
Guy