KVR Audio

kliver · Post by **kliver** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:46 am

Are sound cards really that important for improving your recording audio quality?

I just have a realtek ac97 one.

How much more expensive do they have to be to actually get an improvement in recording quality? I'm not greatly concerned about how it effects playback, more about how it records.(though maybe I should...)

edit: Is something in the $60 range going to be much better.
I'm unwilling to put more than that into it at this point.

kL · Post by kL » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:21 am

This is not just a can of worms you're opening... it's a barrel of pythons.
Yes, the sound card is very important for recorded quality. Anything that's asio and +4 (even some -10) is going to be a world of difference from the realtek.
It's time for you to do some research. Good sounding cards are made by RME, Lynx, MOTU, Presonus, Echo, and others. Remember you can easily buy converters that cost as much as cars; start from there and work down. There are two principal considerations for interfaces: audio quality and driver quality (stability, latency).
I'm sure you'll get lots of answers and good information. My personal preferences are Lynx for pci, RME for firewire, and to avoid usb.
Good luck with your search.

shogger · Post by **shogger** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:28 am

kL wrote:and to avoid usb.

Are you on mac or pc?

Shogger

Aroused by JarJar · Post by **Aroused by JarJar** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:56 am

kliver wrote:Are sound cards really that important for improving your recording audio quality?

I just have a realtek ac97 one.

How much more expensive do they have to be to actually get an improvement in recording quality? I'm not greatly concerned about how it effects playback, more about how it records.(though maybe I should...)

This:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/A ... e2496.html

for 130 USD is the "entrance-level".

The audio quality is fine. If "professional" means you can make money using the equipment, it's "professional" enough to start with.

Not even to mention the importance of the quality of the original source of sound, there are other things in the chain like room and microphone that are orders of magnitude more important to spend your money on than expensive soundcards.

Plus you can get super-low latency midi control of your softsynths, and midi out to control hardware and other computers.

It's a great deal. BTW I have a nice "pro" audio chain (Sek'd 2496S, ADAM S2A's, Sennheiser HD600) and am currently working in a studio with the usual rack of Apogees, Neumanns, ProTools blah blah, so I'm not speaking from a faux-proleteriat fantasy but from the viewpoint of a working musician and composer. And I whole-heartedly recommend the Audiophile as the entrance-level computer interface. Mine from years ago is on permanent loan to a friend, as is my RME Hammerfall (the actual "business secret" of music is that it is about real-life community and interaction).

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:58 am

Though there are many quality soundcards, and many many variations of what a soundcard is, I can say without hesitation, with 100% certainty that just about any soundcard will out perform realtek97/built in stuff.

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:35 am

Of course... But the question is wether that performance (for the money) is necessary. If you're still fairly novice or intermediat in production, I'd recommend skipping over an audio interface or soundcard. Especially if you're using speakers that aren't hot shit. It doesn't help your songs, really. Only your mixing capacity. And if a song is good, it'll still be basically good with sub-par mixing. There comes a point where an audio interface becomes a bigger priority, but it's definitely not near the starting line.

That said, if you record a lot, then you might have added incentive to upgrade earlier. If you do, I suggest spending a little extra to give you a few ins & outs with both 1/4" and XLR. Don't get stuck with RCA's. The adapter scrounging is a PITA. And a good set of readily available physical controls and knobs are extremely helpful, as well as discreet output control. Also, beware of M-Audio... They're not quite on-par with all their product support. Though, they're working on it. For all those reasons I don't think the audiophile is a good option.

I personally use M-Audio's Firewire 410. I'm very satisfied with it, aside from the significant issues I had when I went Vista64. An external audio interface of that style is worth the investment for entry, if you truly need a soundcard upgrade. That level is a bit more expensive than something like the Audiophile, but I think it's worth the expenditure since you'll be sticking with what you've bought.

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:40 am

Tip: Consider Craigslist. I got mine @ half price that way. It's used, yes, but works just fine.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:00 pm

I started on a PC with a Soundblaster Live about 9 years ago, with a couple of cheap external synths (Electribes - wicked fun). The setup was fine for what I was doing then (mostly tweaking sounds at home for use at live gigs), and much better quality that the built in audio on the PC - particularly the inputs which generally suffer from interference from other internal PC components.

A few years later as I progressed I got the M-Audio 24/96 mentioned above because of latency issues, which improved dramatically - to about 6 ms or similar, quick enough for my cack playing ability - and better quality inputs / outputs.

The last two years I've been using an M-Audio 1814 with an Apple laptop. This upgrade occurred because it has more inputs to cope with the gear i have collected since starting, it's portable with the laptop and I can use it with the PC if I need too. The extra I/O also means I don't have to pfaff with audio connections in my home studio so much, it's more permanent. I still have the old card in the PC, which I sometimes use to record from PC -> Mac.

These days, I can spot a problem with the quality of the inputs on both cards - recordings of analogue gear and other external synths does not sound quite as good as it could, so I will have to consider upgrading again d'oh ... but that is the way it goes ...

It's a long slow path, but it is rewarding ... I wouldn't have had a clue about the quality and latency issues when I started out, I was very happy with what I had at each stage, but now I'm much more in tune with all these issues and my choices will be more informed. Maybe one day I'll even make some money out of it to pay for all this stuff

Hope that helps ...

Peace,
Andy.

kliver · Post by **kliver** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:59 pm

Ouch, hefty prices. Is something in the $60 range going to be much better?
I'm unwilling to put more than that into it at this point.

I already have a mic and pre amp set up that's fairly satisfactory, can't do much about room set up.

Thanks for the answers.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:43 am

If you can't hear the difference, then soundcards aren't important.

GreyLion · Post by **GreyLion** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:42 am

Yeah, sound cards do make a difference for recording and mixing, in lots of ways, including flatter frequency response when recording and playing back, lower noise floor, less crossover between left and right channels, and decreased latency.

This is not snobbishness about gear. It's that you will soon want to have more control and clarity as you learn more and hear better.

The bottom-line excellent entry-level card has already been mentioned here several times, and the best price I know for it comes very close to your stated maximum price:

https://www.scitscat.com/catalog/audiop ... p-584.html

This is the AudioPhile 24/96 for $70.

If you can bring yourself to spring for a bit more, you can get the AudioPhile 192 for $100. You'll have balanced ins, which may well become important to you in the future.

https://www.scitscat.com/catalog/maudio ... p-583.html

Another way to got with this, especially if you're a guitarist, is to get a TonePort UX-1 for $83, here:

https://www.scitscat.com/catalog/line-t ... -1502.html

It has a lot of included effects and a not-bad microphone preamp, as well as a no-latency headphone monitor, so it will actually save you money by making it so you don't have to buy those extra things.

This stuff is endless, man. Good luck, because if the addiction kicks in with you as seriously as it has for many of us here, you'll be selling your car next year for a decent set of monitors.

Per Lichtman · Post by **Per Lichtman** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:07 am

I'll just echo what's already been said: in terms of the "big improvement", the Audiophile 2496 is the lowest price card worth considering. There are several other competitors for a few bucks more, but if $60 is your budget, shop around for ASIO cards normally priced in the range of the 2496 or higher.

Do not, I repeat not, buy a Creative Labs card. I have had to spend more time helping my friends update, fix, workaround and deal with those cards than any other brand.

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:38 am

kL wrote:This is not just a can of worms you're opening... it's a barrel of pythons.
Yes, the sound card is very important for recorded quality. Anything that's asio and +4 (even some -10) is going to be a world of difference from the realtek.
It's time for you to do some research. Good sounding cards are made by RME, Lynx, MOTU, Presonus, Echo, and others. Remember you can easily buy converters that cost as much as cars; start from there and work down. There are two principal considerations for interfaces: audio quality and driver quality (stability, latency).
I'm sure you'll get lots of answers and good information. My personal preferences are Lynx for pci, RME for firewire, and to avoid usb.
Good luck with your search.

I was wondering if this was my post... then I saw "kL"

.

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:06 am

Might be worthwhile asking here.

-Kim.

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:37 am

If you're unwilling to spend more than $60ish, I suggest not buying one at all yet. Quality audio on the cheap is a challenge verging on oxymoron. I've used the audiophile 24/96, and it really can be a pain in the ass with it's limitations, particularly for being an internal card that you've gotta reach around the back of your computer to access, and having devastatingly limited in/outs. This is particularly troublesome once you have a fair set of powered reference speakers that will use either 1/4" or XLR cables

I don't think you should set yourself up for an inevitable upgrade. Wait until you can afford something good @ like $250 (or cheaper if used). Something external, where you can plug anything in just like that. You might also consider waiting even more till you can get a proper pair of speakers, buy it together since they're sort of inter-dependent. As one person mentioned, if you can't hear the difference, the audio interface/soundcard isn't important.

Sound cards, are they really that important?