KVR Audio

jplanet · Post by **jplanet** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:19 am

tapper mike wrote: ...
Funk guitar is mostly syncopated 16th notes syncopated rythum patterns using a clean "thin" sound such as a strat
...

That's a very particular kind of funk guitar riff - of course there will be differences based on the possibilities of each instrument, but what Buscemi pointed out is a valid similarity, as far as the harmonic approach, namely 2-3 note chords played in the upper register that usually omit the root note. In a band with guitar, keyboards and bass, the role of keyboard is usually to play rhythmic variations around the guitar using similar chords (with the right hand of course, the left has a similar function in how it interacts with the bass guitar)...

Check out most of Stevie Wonder's clavinet work on his classic early albums, Bernie Worrell, Steely Dan...

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:32 pm

drummer Dennis Chambers talks about 'in the pocket'. IE: that the backbeat is slightly behind what metronomic time would have. EG: when the sock cymbal closes, the snare completes (resolves) that move.

If you quantize things to, say, precise 16ths, it WON'T be *funky*.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:36 pm

hibidy wrote:I don't understand why there aren't more on techniques and such either.

At one point of time I tried to find b3 stuff for edu and it was useless. Don't know if it's changed.

A good BOOK on what the op asked would be welcome something that helped with context "secrets".

Funk, the quality you call funk, is about the time more than anything else, isn't it?

There IS this:

Chambers has a book called the same thing btw.

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:13 pm

jancivil wrote:drummer Dennis Chambers talks about 'in the pocket'. IE: that the backbeat is slightly behind what metronomic time would have. EG: when the sock cymbal closes, the snare completes (resolves) that move.

If you quantize things to, say, precise 16ths, it WON'T be *funky*.

hmm.. no, 'In the pocket' refers to the drummer locking into a groove, and being able to remain so for long periods of time; also locking in with the bassist. It's not just about placement, it's about consistency. You can have pocket drummers doing bebop, which favours a beat ahead of the metronome.

Beware of classing stuff that sits with the metronome as not being funky as well... for a drummer funk is about accents, placement and locking in; you can play a straight 4 beat solidly with the 'nome, but by juggling the accents on the hats and hit the occasional offbeat play something that still exudes funk.

DSP

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:41 pm

duncanparsons wrote:
jancivil wrote:drummer Dennis Chambers talks about 'in the pocket'. IE: that the backbeat is slightly behind what metronomic time would have. EG: when the sock cymbal closes, the snare completes (resolves) that move.

If you quantize things to, say, precise 16ths, it WON'T be *funky*.
hmm.. no, 'In the pocket' refers to the drummer locking into a groove, and being able to remain so for long periods of time; also locking in with the bassist. It's not just about placement, it's about consistency. You can have pocket drummers doing bebop, which favours a beat ahead of the metronome.

Beware of classing stuff that sits with the metronome as not being funky as well... for a drummer funk is about accents, placement and locking in; you can play a straight 4 beat solidly with the 'nome, but by juggling the accents on the hats and hit the occasional offbeat play something that still exudes funk.

DSP

Well, that's your take on it. I'm citing Dennis Chambers, in his text by that name In The Pocket. That is his actual basis for that school of thought. I had assumed that, as certain other persons called in the pocket pretty much as you did, that that was 'correct', so I was somewhat surprised to see Dennis say that. But, note well, you're arguing with him on it before me. I personally would not call bebop sort of time "in the pocket".

I agree with you more or less about consistency, but I do doubt that that consistency can be quantized as easily as you say. I do remember my earliest teacher, from the bandstand, correcting my time and insisting I practice to a metronome. I don't think he was right, btw.

My statement on metronomic time is from a good deal of experience. And you will note that I said 'quantize to precise 16ths'. If you can show me, proof for real (a screenshot of a .mid or a timeline, for instance), a funky-sounding thing where the hi-hat is locked to strictly quantized 16ths, I'll buy what you said. At this point, I do not.

If you recorded some of what I would deem funky records into Cubase or another app which can lock the time to a piece of audio, and look for the downbeats, the backbeats and so forth (dragging the timeline to those places), you will find what I just asserted to have some truth in it.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:51 pm

In order to obtain in the pocket one needs a pocket to be in.
The drummer creates a hole or pocket for the bass player.

Yes drummers humanize beats they are human. Working with a metronome is a good idea for all musicians however many feel the goal is to be on the beat. Not neccesarily so. If you can push or pull consistantly on a specific note in a pattern your playing will have a more natural essence.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:05 pm

so I'm guessing there is no organ/electric/piano books that anyone here knows of with the op's question?

It's a shame (as well as some other things.....)

jplanet · Post by **jplanet** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:09 pm

hibidy wrote:so I'm guessing there is no organ/electric/piano books that anyone here knows of with the op's question?

It's a shame (as well as some other things.....)

I just found a few:

http://www.amazon.com/Funk-Keyboards-Co ... 233&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Keyboard-Complete ... 233&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.com/FUNK-KEYBOARD-MET ... 33&sr=8-11

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:10 pm

jplanet wrote:
hibidy wrote:so I'm guessing there is no organ/electric/piano books that anyone here knows of with the op's question?

It's a shame (as well as some other things.....)
I just found a few:

http://www.amazon.com/Funk-Keyboards-Co ... 233&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Keyboard-Complete ... 233&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.com/FUNK-KEYBOARD-MET ... 33&sr=8-11

thank you!

jplanet · Post by **jplanet** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:12 pm

No problem! All I did was search Amazon for "funk keyboards"!

Stay away form the last link of those three - it looks terrible from the one review, and takes months to ship anyway...The first one looks like the best.

Also, search YouTube...I've been getting some of my best piano lessons by watching lessons on there...

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:21 pm

tapper mike wrote:In order to obtain in the pocket one needs a pocket to be in.
The drummer creates a hole or pocket for the bass player.

Yes drummers humanize beats they are human. Working with a metronome is a good idea for all musicians however many feel the goal is to be on the beat. Not neccesarily so. If you can push or pull consistantly on a specific note in a pattern your playing will have a more natural essence.

Your first statement makes loads of sense. Any statement that reads 'for all musicians', doesn't, really.

Funky Piano-Rhodes-Organ Theory