The Fight for FM

[Aroused by JarJar]

What's VOPM?

download


manual (kind of)

Cheers!

Oho, I see, hahaha! Cool, thanks.

[tony tony chopper]

No, the internal K-Mixer always resamples the incoming signal to 48khz

Where do you get that from?

To start with, it has changed in Vista but in XP DirectSound can be accelerated, thus skipping the kmixer.

Still, I would expect kmixer to mix at the highest samplerate of all streams. I'm not finding any official source where it says it's a fixed 48khz.


All I found about that is this:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/need- ... de-396565/
Kmixer:
The KMixer is a part of Windows that enables your computer to take multiple audio sources and play them back at the same time and at the same bit rate. The KMixer is also how Windows handles your volume control. Regular CD audio is 44.1 kHz. Many times, due to poorly written drivers, sound cards that will interact with the KMixer will cause this 44.1kHz data to be resampled to 48kHz. Obviously this will result in an undesirable result when trying to achieve the utmost in sound quality. The mixing algorithm as implemented by Microsoft has been shown in many cases to only have a signal to noise ratio of about 92dB. CDs have a signal to noise ratio of about 96dB (technically 97.5dB). The KMixer effectively reduces the data from 16bit to 14 bit.

Notice the "due to poorly written drivers".

[Aroused by JarJar]

and doesn't anybody have any sound examples to compare?

FM is a pretty simple digital technique, there's no room for differences, so no 'this one sounds more better/more analog' bar discussions (although some will probably claim that '8bit sounded better'..)

So they will all sound the same, the only differences will be in the features/limitations and the waveforms offered. FM synthesis also requires good multipoint envelopes, because it's all in the modulation.

And if something doesn't sound like a DX7, it's because parameters couldn't be translated 100% accurately (lack of specifications), most FM synths are way more capable than a DX7.

Sure it's simple, and not just for digital, and I'm not talking just about DX-7 emulations. Actually the phrase "state of the art" should make it clear that I'm not talking about DX-7s and their emulations at all.

The nature of FM is such that every tiny charactertic or flaw stands a good chance of suddenly multiplying like flesh-eating rabbits, so really it's more surprising how similar FM synths can sound than how different.

[DavidRadi2]

Toxic Biohazard - You'll get with it also Toxic 3 - Toxic is really great sounding and easy to program - great price for 2 synths with a bit different sound character

Octopus - Nice sound and assignable envelopes instead of LFO's help you design interesting moving patches - great price too

Disco DSP Phantom - check the demo and then buy it from german magazine Beat with 6 Eur including the dellivery / at least in Europe / - Full uncrippled version!!! It's in 2 of the older numbers and you can find more like: Tracktion 2, H.G.Fortune's synths, NI Metaphysical something, Acoustica Audio...and also some LE versions like Drumazon, Predator, Artillery...you'll find them on falkemedia.de

Adonis - great sound for a freeware FM, as the others sound a bit dull to me

And yes FM8 - Classic, but as I have all the ones I mentioned here I'm not sure if I need it as it's 200 Eur. Not having any of these, could be the winner because of the functions, but I like most of all the sound of Toxic Biohazard as it has some character that makes it great synth for industrial

[kodama]

I didn't see if anyone mentioned Sytrus, but def. a contender along with Rhino/Oct/FM8/Toxic/Purple.

Blue can also do algorhythmic phase mod, amongst other things.

[zerocrossing]

What about Toxic 2 and Toxic 3? They have loads of great presets, very usable FM synths.

I'm plus one-ing Toxic, and I'll raise you a Sytrus. Yeah, I know it's not pure FM, but I love that little VST.

[DavidRadi2]

I didn't see if anyone mentioned Sytrus, but def. a contender along with Rhino/Oct/FM8/Toxic/Purple.

+1

Yes wonderfull synth...great parameter controlability /?/ and sound. I have just same problem using it in CAkewalk stuff like with Ogun and Edison - the GUI dissapears when jumping between any windows with envelopes, etc....you can make it right by closing the window with the VSTi and then opening it again, but it's really annoying. I hope that they will sort it someday as they know about it...synths like Toxic, Poizone are untouched by this problem.

[emdot_ambient]

There are a lot of reasons the orignal DX line will sound different from software emulations, some of which aren't even related to the algorithms or sound engines. The DA converters, bit rate, blah, blah, blah. Which sounds better really comes down to subjective taste. Be that as it may, I'd avoid old DX hardware (or any vintage gear for that matter) unless you are prepared to handle the upkeep. A better choice may be something a bit newer like the DX200. It has the same sound engine as the old DX line but with modern features like resonating filters, built in FX, more programmable envelopes, more knobs for live manipulation, morphing between 2 presets and step sequencer...only drawbacks are that it's a beatbox not a keyboard and that all its controls are not accessable from the front panel (an editing program comes with it that allows access to them during preset programming).

But I like the FM7 & 8 and find them much more convenient to use in the studio. They work fine and I've had little problem with them in mixes.

I'm glad someone mentioned Disco DSP's Phantom. It's a 4-op FM/PM/whatever capable of importing sysex presets from the Yamaha 4-op machines like the DX100. It has some really clever features on it as well...bit of a CPU hog for what it does, though. Sounds great, though.

[mungocherry33]

If Toxic 2 were ever offered for sale separately, I but it in a heartbeat provided it was priced somewhere in the ballpark of Hydra.

I like FM8. Rhino 2, FM Heaven, and Blue 1.8. The 1st 3 can all import DX7 patches IIRC. Don't know about Blue. I missed picking up Sytrus during the I-L sidewalk sale, unfortunately. It's a good one as well.

[foosnark]

FM8 is hands down, the best FM software synth out there. With that, you don't need any others. (I also have Toxic Biohazard, FM Heaven, Rhino 2, and various freeware things; while none of them suck, FM8 blows them all away.)

Surge is nice but is much more VA-ish than FM-ish. Having an FM knob doesn't make something an FM synth, any more than having a filter makes FM8 a VA.

[mungocherry33]

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, as I have FM8 and Rhino 2, and like them both a lot, but why do you still have the others, foosnark? Meaning do you still utilize them in some way? I may be interested in FM Heaven if you ever want to get rid of it.

G

[aMUSEd]

Actually my vote for the nicest sounding software DX would go to Rhino 2 without a shadow of a doubt - in fact it's one of the nicest sounding of any VSTis. It's not a pure FM though - does other types of synthesis too which adds the the attraction and the sound. As far as "pure" FM goes (even if in it's "PM" type) FM8 is the most comprehensive and also the most usable in terms of playability, layout and actual presets (which are excellent). Blue is also very nice but I think it's somewhat overpriced (for me at least).

[MitchK1989]

FM8 is hands down, the best FM software synth out there. With that, you don't need any others. (I also have Toxic Biohazard, FM Heaven, Rhino 2, and various freeware things; while none of them suck, FM8 blows them all away.)

Surge is nice but is much more VA-ish than FM-ish. Having an FM knob doesn't make something an FM synth, any more than having a filter makes FM8 a VA.

And that's where you're completely and utterly wrong.

There's not JUST the FM knob between the oscs. There's also the ability for a single OSC to become a 3 or 4 operator FM synth in itself. So Surge gives you 3 mini FM synths that can then FM each other, plus the dual filter section, tons of LFOs and Envelopes, etc.

Surge is a VERY nice FM synth, but it is not laid out like a DX7.

Zebra is a really good FM synth too, since you get 4 basic operators, plus the main zebra oscs, which can't be FM'd, but can be used as modulators for the FMOs (plus being modular, you can put filters, combs, ring mods, etc. all inside the FM routings)

[mungocherry33]

Well I did the Blue/Albino sale deal for $170. Both DL-only . I though that was reasonable. I just bought Rhino 2 from a KVR member, and I was just listenening to the preset collections on Daniel's site;

http://www.synthprograms.com/10573.html

I need to get the "everything" and "everything else" bundles!

And you're right - it does SO much more. I think it's going to function as my "ROMpler of choice".

[thenumber23]

Does anyone know if there is some plugin that can import Yamaha TG-77 (SY-77) presets (basically, FM + samples). I wrote some songs with the TG that I really miss

Brian