What is the best Mellotron sample library
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- KVRian
- 804 posts since 16 Nov, 2004 from Kangzhou
The MkII really is that bright sounding. I've played a MkI that was converted to a MkII and the Pinder samples are the closest to it.shamann wrote:That was pretty cool, thanks for posting them. I wonder why all the Pinder examples are so much brighter? Makes me want to get mtron pro now.
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- KVRian
- 1143 posts since 25 Apr, 2004 from 48Hz
all these years and nobody can beat those Pinder 22k samples.. they are as close to 1:1 emulation as humanly possible.
also, is it just me, or does the old M-Tron sound more 'realistic' than the M-tron pro ... ? are they using indeed the same sample libraries (and i don't mean the remastered ones) ?
also, is it just me, or does the old M-Tron sound more 'realistic' than the M-tron pro ... ? are they using indeed the same sample libraries (and i don't mean the remastered ones) ?
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- KVRian
- 804 posts since 16 Nov, 2004 from Kangzhou
I have M-Tron and M-Tron Pro and have A/B'd the sounds. They sound exactly alike to me, but the remastered sounds don't sound as good as the originals. There are a few new sounds though, like the MkII Organ N02 (right keyboard, Station 5, Track A). I haven't heard this sound in any other sample set.states wrote:all these years and nobody can beat those Pinder 22k samples.. they are as close to 1:1 emulation as humanly possible.
also, is it just me, or does the old M-Tron sound more 'realistic' than the M-tron pro ... ? are they using indeed the same sample libraries (and i don't mean the remastered ones) ?
If you listen to the individual notes in the M-Tron Pro examples I posted, you can hear that the attack portion of the sounds have been chopped off, whereas the Pinder samples retain the original attack. It really makes a difference with the brass sounds. Plus, the Pinder samples sound brighter because they have a greater harmonic content. For instance, the M-Tron Pro MkII Flute is quite muddy sounding next to the Pinder MkII Flute.
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Reverend Rhythm Reverend Rhythm https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041
- KVRAF
- 2859 posts since 21 Feb, 2003 from Woodstock, GA USA
You guys who play taijiguy's samples in Alchemy, would you be willing to make mapings (presets) avaliable? I really like taijiguy's samples in wusikstation, but Alchemy could provide some new, strange, and lovely sounds.
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- TopModernGeezer
- 2679 posts since 14 Mar, 2001 from Stuttgart, Germany
.. when i said that the Mtron covers the full warmth and magic of the real Mellotron then this comparison is exactly what i meant.
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- KVRist
- 40 posts since 8 May, 2008
Hi,
I noticed this topic way too late to give help.I cannot access the comparison files made by taijiguy either, but I'll try to comment this subject anyway.
I believe the MkII samples in Mike Pinder CD-ROM were sampled from the line-out of meticulously adjusted and maintained machine.The M-Tron/M-Tron Pro 'MkII Flute' and 'MkII Violins' samples on the other hand were sampled through an internal speaker of certain MkII back in who knows when(during the '80s?).These are the most obvious differences between them.
I have always wondered if Klaus Hoffmann-Hoock's samples
were originally sampled at lower than CD resolution.There's certain "garbage" in some of these patches that would support this theory.There is at least some
denoising and detuning.I do like at least some of them though, so I can recommend the M-Tron.
I don't have M-Tron Pro and I can't comment how the brand new 'MkII Brass' patch sounds(used in comparison).Besides that, the source tapes are most likely different between all these sampled Mellotron MkII's.There is variation in tuning and equalization for instance.
It should also be noted that differences between machines(adjustments, condition of the tapeheads etc.)affect the sound as well.So comparison
is not that easy.
To the attack issue.Attacks vary and depend on adjustments, tapes and how the note was keyed down.Of cource they could have edited the attacks away like taijiguy suggests.In M-Tron there's two versions of 3Violins sounds, which were recorded from the line-out of MkII(Bill Wyman's?).
The 'Violins 2' patch still has some attacks(quite loud one's actually), but the 'Violins 1' patch doesn't.
The 'MkII Organ No. 2' patch mentioned by taijiguy, was actually released in M-Tron Tape Banks Vol.3 and it was available in M-Audio's version of M-Tron as well, provided that it is the same patch.It is an organ with a fast vibrato.Hammond organ, like some MkII sound lists claim, or is it actually a Lowrey organ?
Organ No.1' and 'Organ No. 3'(Tibia) are not available, unless you count the Nord Mellotron Library.They looped and streched those MkVI samples, which besides the lossless data compression explain curiously small sample sizes, bit of a shame really.I can't really comment the sound quality of Nord library since I have only heard them in concerts.
I got the SampleTron free of charge due to IKM's promotion.Although marketing material claims that chromatic samples were used, I can't find a single Mellotron or Chamberlin patch that would fully meet this claim.I was initially dissapointed by this discovery, but I'm growing to like the SampleTron.There might however be an ethical dilemma that would require corrective measures, mainly changing the phrasing.
Due to their formants and harmonics, especially Mellotron/Chamberlin string sounds won't sound very good when sample interpolation is used.Metallic,"chirpy", and/or artificially hollow tonality can be heard.Other sounds lend themselves better to this kind of treatment.Sample streching has also tendency to thin the sound.It could be said that sample streching waters down uniqueness of tron notes.There is artificial inconsistency between keyzones unlike inconsistencies within a real trons.I think there's too few samples within each keyzone in general.Being true to the IK Multimedia's workstation concept is the idea behind the SampleTron and makes this recource saving procedure understandable.
Some sounds in SampleTron show the looping artifacts like flaws(dropouts etc.) repeating over sustained notes.Playing short legato notes, swells, or playing staccato will pretty much hide these artifacts.Layering sounds will hide them also, as well as most of the artifacts derived from sample stretching.Turning Macro knobs also helps.
Kudos to Squids for the quality sampling.Those notes that got sampled do sound good and I prefer some of them over M-Tron!
Who knows, we might see full chromatic samples in Kontakt based Infinite Player(only dreaming).
My view is that the SampleTron is very much usable, albeit not the most authentic tron sound set.It all depends on a song, context and how you mix things.
I believe SampleTron has Mellotron Vibes from the M400 library (without vibrato), effects sounds and other exclusive stuff, so at the very least there's variety between all these sample sets.This is a value in itself.
Financially it is wise to figure out which kind of tron sounds actually get used.
See ya!
I noticed this topic way too late to give help.I cannot access the comparison files made by taijiguy either, but I'll try to comment this subject anyway.
I believe the MkII samples in Mike Pinder CD-ROM were sampled from the line-out of meticulously adjusted and maintained machine.The M-Tron/M-Tron Pro 'MkII Flute' and 'MkII Violins' samples on the other hand were sampled through an internal speaker of certain MkII back in who knows when(during the '80s?).These are the most obvious differences between them.
I have always wondered if Klaus Hoffmann-Hoock's samples
were originally sampled at lower than CD resolution.There's certain "garbage" in some of these patches that would support this theory.There is at least some
denoising and detuning.I do like at least some of them though, so I can recommend the M-Tron.
I don't have M-Tron Pro and I can't comment how the brand new 'MkII Brass' patch sounds(used in comparison).Besides that, the source tapes are most likely different between all these sampled Mellotron MkII's.There is variation in tuning and equalization for instance.
It should also be noted that differences between machines(adjustments, condition of the tapeheads etc.)affect the sound as well.So comparison
is not that easy.
To the attack issue.Attacks vary and depend on adjustments, tapes and how the note was keyed down.Of cource they could have edited the attacks away like taijiguy suggests.In M-Tron there's two versions of 3Violins sounds, which were recorded from the line-out of MkII(Bill Wyman's?).
The 'Violins 2' patch still has some attacks(quite loud one's actually), but the 'Violins 1' patch doesn't.
The 'MkII Organ No. 2' patch mentioned by taijiguy, was actually released in M-Tron Tape Banks Vol.3 and it was available in M-Audio's version of M-Tron as well, provided that it is the same patch.It is an organ with a fast vibrato.Hammond organ, like some MkII sound lists claim, or is it actually a Lowrey organ?
Organ No.1' and 'Organ No. 3'(Tibia) are not available, unless you count the Nord Mellotron Library.They looped and streched those MkVI samples, which besides the lossless data compression explain curiously small sample sizes, bit of a shame really.I can't really comment the sound quality of Nord library since I have only heard them in concerts.
I got the SampleTron free of charge due to IKM's promotion.Although marketing material claims that chromatic samples were used, I can't find a single Mellotron or Chamberlin patch that would fully meet this claim.I was initially dissapointed by this discovery, but I'm growing to like the SampleTron.There might however be an ethical dilemma that would require corrective measures, mainly changing the phrasing.
Due to their formants and harmonics, especially Mellotron/Chamberlin string sounds won't sound very good when sample interpolation is used.Metallic,"chirpy", and/or artificially hollow tonality can be heard.Other sounds lend themselves better to this kind of treatment.Sample streching has also tendency to thin the sound.It could be said that sample streching waters down uniqueness of tron notes.There is artificial inconsistency between keyzones unlike inconsistencies within a real trons.I think there's too few samples within each keyzone in general.Being true to the IK Multimedia's workstation concept is the idea behind the SampleTron and makes this recource saving procedure understandable.
Some sounds in SampleTron show the looping artifacts like flaws(dropouts etc.) repeating over sustained notes.Playing short legato notes, swells, or playing staccato will pretty much hide these artifacts.Layering sounds will hide them also, as well as most of the artifacts derived from sample stretching.Turning Macro knobs also helps.
Kudos to Squids for the quality sampling.Those notes that got sampled do sound good and I prefer some of them over M-Tron!
Who knows, we might see full chromatic samples in Kontakt based Infinite Player(only dreaming).
My view is that the SampleTron is very much usable, albeit not the most authentic tron sound set.It all depends on a song, context and how you mix things.
I believe SampleTron has Mellotron Vibes from the M400 library (without vibrato), effects sounds and other exclusive stuff, so at the very least there's variety between all these sample sets.This is a value in itself.
Financially it is wise to figure out which kind of tron sounds actually get used.
See ya!
Compassion and knowledge.