KVR Audio

RawTheory · Post by **RawTheory** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:27 pm

koolkeys wrote:
StuartAmbient wrote: On the browser screen, there is a button that says "Preview Load". This lets you go through and just preview instruments by only loading part of the samples. Saves a LOT of time if you are just browsing through. The "Auto Load" button makes the entire instrument load when you click on it.

Also, on the "System" screen, there are options for pre-loading and streaming that may help some people and at least may be worth checking out. They can affect performance a little bit.

Brent

Yeah, I have to remember that. Its easy to forget that these days, VSTs can compete with DAW's in their complexity and can require setup time for optimal usage. I always want to just fire up the noise and enjoy!

yairhol · Post by **yairhol** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:44 am

GlennO wrote:One other thing, and this can be confusing, please note that in this context, the relevant memory is virtual memory, not RAM.

You're right, I forgot about this. It is virtual memory which makes me even more confused since for virtual memory the computer uses the HD right?
HD memory I have tons and I'm sure other users have lots of it too. Why then do we get the "out of memory" messages? Surely we are not out of HD memory.

GlennO · Post by **GlennO** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:07 am

Your total amount of virtual memory available for plugins depends primarily on your operating system and your host. For example, when using Cubase on windows 32 bit, you can expect a bit more than 1 GB. This pool of memory must be shared by all the plugins you are using in a session. There are ways to increase this pool of memory and ways to make more efficient use of it, as described in the Omnisphere FAQs.

- Glenn

yairhol · Post by **yairhol** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:54 am

GlennO wrote:Your total amount of virtual memory available for plugins depends primarily on your operating system and your host. For example, when using Cubase on windows 32 bit, you can expect a bit more than 1 GB. This pool of memory must be shared by all the plugins you are using in a session. There are ways to increase this pool of memory and ways to make more efficient use of it, as described in the Omnisphere FAQs.

- Glenn

I have done the optimization suggested in the Omnisphere FAQs together with your tech support guys but still no solution to the problem.

Now, If it is a matter of OS and host as you say then:

1. Operating system: It is an educated guess to estimate around 95% of PC users having Windows XP so this is one common OS to most.
2. Host: How many major hosts are there? say around 4? 5? So this is also a parameter that is common to many users (many use Cubase, many use Sonar etc.).

The question is then how come some users are having these Omni issues and some are not if we deduced that most PC users are on XP and DAWs are similar to many users?

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:15 am

yairhol wrote:
1. Operating system: It is an educated guess to estimate around 95% of PC users having Windows XP so this is one common OS to most.

Maybe, maybe not. In the pro studio world, which is also closer to the typical Spectrasonics audience, Macs have more than just 5% market share.

2. Host: How many major hosts are there? say around 4? 5? So this is also a parameter that is common to many users (many use Cubase, many use Sonar etc.).

The question is then how come some users are having these Omni issues and some are not if we deduced that most PC users are on XP and DAWs are similar to many users?

Anything is possible when there are millions of possible configurations. And I'm not saying that it definitely IS the cause, just that it CAN be the cause. Most software has a set of bugs that are specific to certain configurations and not everyone experiences it. It's just so hard to pinpoint exactly where the problem is without having a little bit of patience. Unfortunately, these things do happen. But I believe that wherever the problem is, Spectrasonics will likely find it and fix it or at least how to avoid it.

Brent

yairhol · Post by **yairhol** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:54 am

koolkeys wrote:Maybe, maybe not. In the pro studio world, which is also closer to the typical Spectrasonics audience, Macs have more than just 5% market share.

Koolkeys, I said that out of the PC users, 95% are working with XP.

yairhol wrote:...around 95% of PC users having Windows XP...

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:02 am

yairhol wrote:
koolkeys wrote:Maybe, maybe not. In the pro studio world, which is also closer to the typical Spectrasonics audience, Macs have more than just 5% market share.

Koolkeys, I said that out of the PC users, 95% are working with XP.

yairhol wrote:...around 95% of PC users having Windows XP...

Misunderstanding on my part. I'm at work so only reading in passing. However, in the OVERALL world, that figure wouldn't be accurate. In the audio world, probably not too far off. I think more people use Vista for audio than many people think, but I can't prove that.

Regardless, that's not important in this thread. Sorry to hijack your post.

Brent

RawTheory · Post by **RawTheory** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:54 am

RawTheory wrote:
Although I have had a mostly smooth experience with Omni, I have run into the "out of memory" message on both full blown Reaper projects with three or four instances of Omni with up to three or four channels on each, and with just Omni open for a long time playing patches and soundsources. With rendering and deactivating instances as I work on full productions, I'm able to compensate for the memory loss, but it would be nice to not have to worry about them. Im on an Intel Core2Duo 2.20GHz PC with 2.00 GB of RAM built by ADK Pro audio called the 1QSR.

I've also received the Reaper "runtime" C++ errors in Reaper while using Omni and browsing through soundsources is a bit of a pain while having to wait 2-3 sec for the sound to load. Some Soundsources load almost instantaneously though.

I do think Omni can use some more optimization but it does represent the future of VST technology so I expect its functionality to grow as computing power grows and drops in price....

I sent this observation to Spectrasonics and their response is as follows:

"Were you aware that our minimum recommendations for PC's and Omnisphere is a 3.0 Ghz processor? This probably explains the performance issues."

I'm prepared to accept that and I'll hope that it'll perform better on an Intel i7 based computer I plan on building sometime in the future.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:15 am

RawTheory wrote:"Were you aware that our minimum recommendations for PC's and Omnisphere is a 3.0 Ghz processor? This probably explains the performance issues."

I'm prepared to accept that and I'll hope that it'll perform better on an Intel i7 based computer I plan on building sometime in the future.

I mentioned that earlier in this thread... but oddly I don't seem to remember reading that tidbit pre-release. I'm usually right on that. Either the spec changed or (more likely) I looked at the Mac spec and glossed over the PC spec.

Basically I have to install this on my Mac which is a bit beefier than my laptop... or abandon my laptop in favor of a desktop. I still hope that in the future they add a way to turn off or lower oversampling quality as a way of making Omnisphere a little less resource hoggy. Once I passed on Poly-ana because it was too much for my system for what it did, but a later release was optimized to a point where it became usable and now I like it when I'm going for the exact opposite thing that Omnisphere is good for.

Zero dB · Post by **Zero dB** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:42 pm

I don't buy that - that's called fobbing you off, RawTheory! A 2.2 Core2Duo (is that Q6600?) is more than enough horsepower to handle Omnisphere. From my experience CPU load is the least of the problems on a capable system - it's the way Omnisphere handles memory that's the issue.

I also don't buy their "it's a plugin and so has limitations" argument. We've all used MANY demanding plugins that stream gigabytes of samples yet I've never run into out of memory problems. Simply put, I think Omnisphere is doing something wrong when it comes to handling memory on the PC and Spectrasonics aren't owning up to it, nor do they seem to want to do anything about it. It's so disappointing.

ZdB

cain · Post by **cain** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:23 pm

can i ask what are you guys going so i can try and reproduce the (out of memory error) you guys are talking about. i have had it since it was released and i have not had that happen to me.
my specs are
(first pc e8500 3.1ghz dualcore with 4 gigs of ram) and (the second is a Q6600 2.4 overclocked to 3.0ghz with 4 gigs.)

Zero dB · Post by **Zero dB** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:51 pm

Thanks cain. I have a Q6600 like you, also with 4GB, only not overclocked.

I'm running 32 bit Windows XP and my DAW is REAPER (FWIW the most stable DAW I've ever used, particulary in the way it handles plugins!).

I don't have exact repro steps, but generally I'll insert an Omni into a project and, as you do, start cycling through patches. I might insert another instance and start doing the same. Maybe close the plugin window, do some other stuff and come back to an Omni window. Flick to a patch and boom - either and out of memory error within Omni or, worse, a REAPER error forcing it to shutdown.

Obviously that's pretty rough but should give you an idea. What DAW are you using cain? Could you also try with REAPER on your system? It's free and easy to try if you don't have it.

Thanks

ZdB

cain · Post by **cain** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:57 pm

im using old cubase vst5.2 but also have energy xt, i will download the reaper demo tonight when i get home and see if i can get that to happen.
we got about the same spec on the pc. i will report back with what i get.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:57 am

Just a little update to my aftertouch problem (in case anyone else experiences it).

Going to the system tab and selecting "reset to after" on the aftertouch modulation (although it was set that way in the first place) fixed it.

yairhol · Post by **yairhol** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:00 am

cain wrote:can i ask what are you guys going so i can try and reproduce the (out of memory error) you guys are talking about. i have had it since it was released and i have not had that happen to me.
my specs are
(first pc e8500 3.1ghz dualcore with 4 gigs of ram) and (the second is a Q6600 2.4 overclocked to 3.0ghz with 4 gigs.)

I have a Q6600 (quad core) with 2GB of RAM. CPU is 2.4GHz. I'm using Cubase Studio 4.2.
The "out of memory" message happens after some time of going through patches (not after 5 minutes but more like an hour or more). Load a patch, load a different one play some, load another etc... If you have 4GB of RAM it might take you more time than me to get the error (if at all).

I've also experienced the C++ runtime error which forces Cubase to shut down. After that I need to restart my computer because that error does something to the audio card (I think) as I can't hear anything when I open up Cubase again. Only a restart fixes this.

My frustration at this point is that Spectrasonics are not approving this problem (out of memory message). They're saying it's a host + OS problem and not a RAM issue (more of a handling of virtual memory).
I don't know what to say anymore. Some people are experiencing this and I can imagine that some are not.

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