Autechre's Cichli (from Chiastic Slide) - ? time signature

[basic channel]

hi

I'm sitting here listening to this & can't for the life of me work out the time signature(s) !

If someone is familiar with it (or has access to it) can you tell me the answer ?

thanks

BC

[jopy]

i dig the hell out of cichli. here's a youtube link for anyone who's curious:



this is just one person's opinion, but i think they're trying to mess around with your expectations, deliberately making music that doesn't have an easily identifiable time signature despite having a clear beat. they start and stop sequences at different places in the beat so the barlines are obscured a bit, which is one of the main contributions idm made to the otherwise very rigid and simplistic rhythmic formula of electronic dance music.

BUT, it is in a slow 5/4.

[Ubiety]

That's one of my favorite Autechre tunes. And, yes, it's in 5/4 - but it's pretty brisk to my ears..

[basic channel]

i dig the hell out of cichli. here's a youtube link for anyone who's curious:



this is just one person's opinion, but i think they're trying to mess around with your expectations, deliberately making music that doesn't have an easily identifiable time signature despite having a clear beat. they start and stop sequences at different places in the beat so the barlines are obscured a bit, which is one of the main contributions idm made to the otherwise very rigid and simplistic rhythmic formula of electronic dance music.

BUT, it is in a slow 5/4.

Thanks - I'll have to take your word for it !

It almost sounds to me, though, that the signature is ever changing ... maybe that's what they aimed for.

A lovely track though - one of my favourite forms of electronica is when a track sounds kind of rough / raw but mellow & melodic at the same time. And an interesting time signature to boot !

This was one of the major appeals to me of jungle circa 94-96 (when it went more melodic / soulful but could still have f**k-off breakbeats & arse-quaking sub ... genius stuff).

[jopy]

That's one of my favorite Autechre tunes. And, yes, it's in 5/4 - but it's pretty brisk to my ears..

indeed, it feels fast but the actual count is pretty slow (108 bpm). i was just referring to how fast you'd tap your foot; if you try to count the subdivisions within the 5/4 you can get all screwed up in the syncopation.

[jopy]

It almost sounds to me, though, that the signature is ever changing ... maybe that's what they aimed for.

I hear what you're saying. If you count the 8th note pulses at 216 bpm (which is what I originally did) it does sound a lot like the sequences keep changing the length.

Now if you asked someone to count out something from draft 7.30, I think you'd be out of luck.

[amiga909]

A lovely track though - one of my favourite forms of electronica is when a track sounds kind of rough / raw but mellow & melodic at the same time. And an interesting time signature to boot !

+1

[Ubiety]

That's one of my favorite Autechre tunes. And, yes, it's in 5/4 - but it's pretty brisk to my ears..

indeed, it feels fast but the actual count is pretty slow (108 bpm). i was just referring to how fast you'd tap your foot; if you try to count the subdivisions within the 5/4 you can get all screwed up in the syncopation.

Well it depends on what you're focused on, but I don't know how you hear it at 108 bpm. Well, focused on the back beat, I do (at around 104 bpm), but listening to the melody, the tempo is clearly around 208 bpm.

[jopy]

That's one of my favorite Autechre tunes. And, yes, it's in 5/4 - but it's pretty brisk to my ears..

indeed, it feels fast but the actual count is pretty slow (108 bpm). i was just referring to how fast you'd tap your foot; if you try to count the subdivisions within the 5/4 you can get all screwed up in the syncopation.

Well it depends on what you're focused on, but I don't know how you hear it at 108 bpm. Listening to the melody, it's more like 208 bpm.

It's 6 of 1 or a 1/2 dozen of another--either it's 216ish with a basic two-bar rhythm phrase length or 108ish with a one-bar phrase.

Your quarter notes are my 8ths and my quarter notes are your half notes. I'm hearing it that way because the stuff that's on the 8ths seems more like high hats to me, and high hats are nearly always played as 8ths or 16ths on a drum kit.

[Ubiety]

That's one of my favorite Autechre tunes. And, yes, it's in 5/4 - but it's pretty brisk to my ears..

indeed, it feels fast but the actual count is pretty slow (108 bpm). i was just referring to how fast you'd tap your foot; if you try to count the subdivisions within the 5/4 you can get all screwed up in the syncopation.

Well it depends on what you're focused on, but I don't know how you hear it at 108 bpm. Listening to the melody, it's more like 208 bpm.

It's 6 of 1 or a 1/2 dozen of another--either it's 216ish with a basic two-bar phrase length or 108ish with a one-bar phrase.

Your quarter notes are my 8ths and my quarter notes are your half notes.

I just wrote a different explanation. See above. Anyway, I would score based on the melody, not the back beat.

[basic channel]

A lovely track though - one of my favourite forms of electronica is when a track sounds kind of rough / raw but mellow & melodic at the same time. And an interesting time signature to boot !

+1

DJ Shadow's Stem-long Stem, Transmission 2 is another that springs to mind (albeit different genre) - massive, hard crunchy beats but lovely background melody etc.

[Ubiety]

The other thing is that the syncopations are far less distracting from the meter (5/4) when focused on the tempo of the melody. Whereas the slower tempo of the back beat magnifies the asymmetric pattern of the back beat, particularly between beats 4 and 5, and beats 5 and 1, where time seems suspended or stretched.

[jopy]

The other thing is that the syncopations are far less distracting from the meter (5/4) when focused on the tempo of the melody. Whereas the slower tempo of the back beat magnifies the asymmetric pattern of the back beat, particularly between beats 4 and 5, and beats 5 and 1, where time seems suspended or stretched.

It's funny, I tried listening mostly to the melody when counting just now and to my ears it's still the exact opposite feel to me from what you describe. For some reason I can keep it straight around 100 beats very easily, and feel messed up when I to count the faster 200ish beat.

You and I are probably just wired differently for rhythm. This is probably a bit off topic, so I hope the OP doesn't mind, but I've noticed that some people hear fundamental rhythms differently--and usually it's exactly this difference we're discussing now, where some people naturally count in "double time" rhythms and other people count more like "half time" rhythms. I also have a really slow resting heart rate (curiously enough, it's about 50 beats per minute, about 1/2 the tempo of what I hear in this song). I've wondered if there's some sort of fundamental rhythmic unit of time that differs across people.

Either way, this is an interesting little sidebar.

[vieris]

Great track. 90's AE is what i used to jam to on my drum kit for practice in high school. As it's been said it's mostly 5/4 with shifting accents..
I highly recommend all musicians to checkout aloke dutta's teachings. http://www.alokedutta.com/
The 1st book is great for ALL musicians not just drummers. It's one of the best things you can do for your internal time & rhythm understanding.
http://www.alokedutta.com/lessonbook1.html

Warning - It has the ability to destroy the average music listener experience.

[Ubiety]

Great track. 90's AE is what i used to jam to on my drum kit for practice in high school. As it's been said it's mostly 5/4 with shifting accents..
I highly recommend all musicians to checkout aloke dutta's teachings. http://www.alokedutta.com/
The 1st book is great for ALL musicians not just drummers. It's one of the best things you can do for your internal time & rhythm understanding.
http://www.alokedutta.com/lessonbook1.html

Warning - It has the ability to destroy the average music listener experience.

To that, I recommend that musicians also check out Stravinsky.