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psydin · Post by **psydin** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:52 pm

hello,

i am learning music on piano and the theory of music..
i would like to know more about counterpoint,how to compose in counterpoint..
i know the main idea,that counterpoint is combination between some different voices.
i will appreciate if someone could help me

thank you!(: have a nice day

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:07 pm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4996634/The-S ... -Parnassum

alphabetgreen · Post by **alphabetgreen** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:44 am

psydin wrote:hello,
i am learning music on piano and the theory of music..
i would like to know more about counterpoint,how to compose in counterpoint..
i know the main idea,that counterpoint is combination between some different voices.
i will appreciate if someone could help me

thank you!(: have a nice day

I had just written this on another thread, when I saw that your need was probably greater, so here you are:

Two-part counterpoint is a bit of strange concept and takes a bit of getting used to. You see, it's very difficult to know whether you've represented the desired chord with enough implication. Indeed, there are times whereby each voice will sound the third and fifth of the chord and omit the bass. This is perfectly admissable (according to the rules based on 18th century counterpoint which is the standard learning curve in British A-level establishments). Another strange phenomenon is the dominant 7th chord. One thinks 'how can I represent a dominant 7th chord with 2 notes'. Well, firstly it has to be in the right place. Obviously you wouldn't start your piece with it. Nevertheless if you used it immediately before chords I and VI, it would imply a cadence, and would be recognised as such IF you use the right notes, and the right notes are the 3rd and the 7th of the chord. This is because the interval between the 3rd and the 7th is a tritone (augmented 4th/diminished 5th) and it is that tritone that provides the flavour in a full dominant 7th chord.

The best way to write two part counterpoint is to first, keep the chord structure as simple as possible. Don't even think of using chromatic chords or secondary sevenths. Try to stick to chords I, IV and V, and always make sure that the 3rd is heard in one of the voices. If you first form a line of simple 4 note chords on two staves using crotchets (quarter notes), and then subtract 2 notes from each chord, usually the awkward ones in respect of a fluid horizontal melody line (always remember to keep the 3rd and avoid parallel 5ths and octaves like the plague). Once you have finished that, add passing notes (quavers/eighth notes) in between the notes that are a third apart (for example, if your violin part's first crotchet was an A and the second was a C, join them up with a B (quaver) in between.

Then you're on your way to writing some effective 2-part counterpoint.

I hope this helps,

Cheers,

Simon

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:08 am

herodotus wrote:http://www.scribd.com/doc/4996634/The-S ... -Parnassum

Yes, but. He takes Palestrina to be the be-all and end-all of polyphony. Of course ol' Johnny is a good example, but there have been some developments after 1594 (from memory; I can be a few years off).

Victor.

alphabetgreen · Post by **alphabetgreen** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:49 am

If by 'ol' Johnny', you are referring to Johann Sebastian Bach, he wasn't born until 1685 (from memory; spot on).

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:07 am

VicDiesel wrote:
herodotus wrote:http://www.scribd.com/doc/4996634/The-S ... -Parnassum
Yes, but. He takes Palestrina to be the be-all and end-all of polyphony. Of course ol' Johnny is a good example, but there have been some developments after 1594 (from memory; I can be a few years off).

Victor.

But if someone wants to start studying counterpoint, a free copy of a seminal text in the field is a good place to begin, no?

Especially when said seminal text happens to be the pedagogical model upon which 99 percent of later texts are based (e.g. the practice of introducing voices one at a time as 'species' is still standard in modern texts on the subject).

Plus, it is a well written book with a bit of character compared to the academic clumsiness of many later efforts.

alphabetgreen wrote:If by 'ol' Johnny', you are referring to Johann Sebastian Bach, he wasn't born until 1685 (from memory; spot on).

I think he means Palestrina. Giovanni is a variant of John.

alphabetgreen · Post by **alphabetgreen** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:54 am

My mistake. I was just being clever anyway. That shot me right in the ass, mea culpa.

psydin · Post by **psydin** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:23 pm

thank you my friend that help me(: i am appreciate that....you help me a lot.(: