Unwanted Comb filtering?

[dacaumodo]

Hi everybody

the other day I recorded a singer at home through my Oktava mk-220, my Mackie 1202-VLZ3 and into an M-Audio Delta Audiophile soudncard, but I also used a mic screen like those :

http://www.thomann.de/fr/the_tbone_mics ... r_id=25293

i.e. not the expensive ones but a cheaper version.

Now I'm not really satisied with the result and I'm wondering if the screen might not be the culprit. I read somewhere that this kind of screens introduces comb filtering, but i don't know if this BS or not.

Would someone do me a favour and analyse the following vocal clip? It's in Vietnamese in case you're wondering.

http://www.box.net/shared/69sjy9jkm8
(8.8 meg wav file, untreated, with warts!)

I wouldn't know what to look for to check this. I ran the clip through Scwha's spectro and I get funny lines:




I realize that any element in my recording chain might be responsible but if something obvious appears to someone with more experience here... it may also just be harmonics specific to that girl's voice for all I know. What I hear is almost a kind of slight distortion on longer notes, in the upper middle range, even though no clipping at all was involved in the recording. I hear it both in my headphones and my monitors so it's reasonable to assume it's not a fault of my listening system.

thanks

d

[Kim Lajoie]

Sounds good!

The distortion sounds like it's actually the resonance in her vocal chords. Nothing to worry about, sounds cool. Throw it in the mix and you'll be fine.

-Kim.

[annode]

I just had a look at the polar patterns of your mic.
The position of the mic and where she sings into it makes a big difference with the frequency response.
I do hear what your hearing. I still want to look at it in graphic form, but till then it seems like some of it is her voice.Sounds like nasal resonance possibly. Although at one part it sounds like something external vibrating...i'll give it more attention...it's early morning here now.
Were you precise as to how you positioned her voice into the mic and where you placed the screen in respect to the pattern you used?

Usually combing will happen when multiple signals reach your ears or a pickup device at very close but varying times. This is common when you have a set of monitors atop a recording desk. The faster frequencies reach your ears first and the reflections off the console reach them just behind...that produces combing. If your mic isn't in this sort of arrangement, it's not combing

[dacaumodo]

I just had a look at the polar patterns of your mic.
The position of the mic and where she sings into it makes a big difference with the frequency response.
I do hear what your hearing. I still want to look at it in graphic form, but till then it seems like some of it is her voice.Sounds like nasal resonance possibly. Although at one part it sounds like something external vibrating...i'll give it more attention...it's early morning here now.
Were you precise as to how you positioned her voice into the mic and where you placed the screen in respect to the pattern you used?

Usually combing will happen when multiple signals reach your ears or a pickup device at very close but varying times. This is common when you have a set of monitors atop a recording desk. The faster frequencies reach your ears first and the reflections off the console reach them just behind...that produces combing. If your mic isn't in this sort of arrangement, it's not combing

I must admit I don't really know what I'm doing re: mic position, I generally assume that if the singer sings reasonably straight at the mic, which she did, I should be fine. I try also to make sure no obviously resonant surface is behind the singer. The mic itself was perpendicular to the desk, in any case she was singing with cans on. I don't know if this answer your question though.

I kind of think it is nasal or laryngeal resonance too, but I wanted to make sure. Vietnamese singers have a way of humming (singing some notes with their lips together ) that can perhaps increase this effect. I think the noise I'm hearing occurs mostly when she sings with her lips together.

[dacaumodo]

Oh, and I forgot to thank you guys for listening. Much appreciated.

[stefancrs]

I don't know what is the cause of it, but it sounds friggin awesome. If you mean what happens in that "naauuwww" part

[Hannes_F]

The lines you see are the harmonics.

[annode]

The mic's frequency crests and troughs can be mastered to ones advantage.
Dependent on the pattern,the freq range jumps around at like 5khz and up.
If she was perhaps singing into a lobe which accentuates 5khz, this could explain why the noises/resonances were more noticable.

Doing a few takes with different mic to singer phases and choosing the best sound for the singer is always a good idea with your mic. Then once thats settled, go for the best takes in performance.
I would study those mic patterns closely for the future.
Thanks for posting it as a .wav. It sounds very nice overall to me. I'd like to use it just for a hobby progect. Not every day you get a nice vocal like this to experiment.

So thank you dacaumodo and good luck with your project.

[dacaumodo]

I don't know what is the cause of it, but it sounds friggin awesome. If you mean what happens in that "naauuwww" part

That's the exact part I have in mind. It's a little tough to make "sit" in the mix though.

I'll post the whole song once it's done, the vocals is actually only a part.

I hope to do more with the singer, perhaps even release a "samples pack" or something. She does have a nice voice.

[camsr]

Well here's what I do if I want to mask unpleasant harshness in a sound: Drop the range where the harshness is, with eq. Route the track into an aux reverb, plate is best. Do the inverse eq on the aux reverb channel than what the vocal track was. Use light settings on that reverb. The goal is to smear it and make it less prominent but to keep the tonal balance. A plate reverb is best because it introduces less comb filtering.

But listening to what you did dacaumodo, it's just natural resonance. EQ directly on that part of the sound will make the resonance longer and more prominent, even if you turn down the gain. What you should do is EQ around it to avoid causing any more ringing in that range. You could also try linear phase EQ but it shouldn't make too much difference for a vocal track.

MY opinion is it needs to be recorded again. Change the mic position and do I hear some kind of clacking in the background?

[dacaumodo]

Well here's what I do if I want to mask unpleasant harshness in a sound: Drop the range where the harshness is, with eq. Route the track into an aux reverb, plate is best. Do the inverse eq on the aux reverb channel than what the vocal track was. Use light settings on that reverb. The goal is to smear it and make it less prominent but to keep the tonal balance. A plate reverb is best because it introduces less comb filtering.

But listening to what you did dacaumodo, it's just natural resonance. EQ directly on that part of the sound will make the resonance longer and more prominent, even if you turn down the gain. What you should do is EQ around it to avoid causing any more ringing in that range. You could also try linear phase EQ but it shouldn't make too much difference for a vocal track.

MY opinion is it needs to be recorded again. Change the mic position and do I hear some kind of clacking in the background?

Thanks for the great tips Camsr, will try them out. I wish I could record this again but it won't be possible because the track must be ready soon and the singer is away for a while.

There might be some clicking involved here and there, on the whole in the bits I've kept it's doesn't show too much, but I think the singer made a couple of clicking sounds with her lips. That's the problem when recording "soft" vocals like this I guess - as well as not having a proper vocal booth nor good recording technique

I guess it's still guerilla recording for me! Maybe one day I'll be able to make a proper booth but for now I need to make do with what I have...

Oh, and thanks everybody for the feedback and advice.

d