BIG news from NI NAMM 2009

[ericj23]

i'm the person who started the Live controller fuss by pointing out that it isn't velocity sensitive (which will make for a great step sequencer). The reason I pointed it out is that I thought the comparisons earlier in this thread along the lines of the new ableton controller murders maschine were not justified

The ableton controller is about mixing and controlling/launching loops - which maschine can also do this - it just has less pads (or rather it has banks of pads)

BUT

maschine allows you to write your own loops - or at least program them in (don't know if it has step sequencer too, but 16 pads are rather more useful for this than 12) - then set up variations and launch them to make songs

Neither way of working is really my thing, but I suspect some people will love maschine

[mykal700]

I really hope for Guitar Rig 4.GTR3 Was freakin awesome!

[Shabdahbriah]

I think people aren't realizing exactly what those pads are for... It's for controlling live's session view... Not for laying down beats...

If the pads are only for controlling live's session view, then why the emphasis on being able to customise what the APC does via Max For Live? Why show us an example of it operating as a step sequencer, instead of controlling live's session view?

It isn't "only for controlling live's session view". As we've seen, it can be used for other things e.g. "step-sequencing". However, "Mitch1989" is correct (as far as I have been able to determine), in that the "pads" are not "pads" (perse') ~ they are "buttons":

The APC40 features high quality controls for real-time mixing, remixing and production. 109 buttons, 16 endless encoders with LED rings, nine 45mm faders and a replaceable crossfader give musicians and producers complete control of Live's Session View, effect devices and virtual instruments.

Whether you're in the studio or on stage, DJing, making beats, running backing tracks, firing MIDI loops or triggering sound effects, you can kiss your mouse goodbye.

As far as having the "buttons" be "velocity sensitive", I doubt very much that it was an "oversight", as much as a potential design consideration which was intentionally not implemented, given Akai's existing line of controllers, the availability of other "drum-pad/trigger" devises, and certainly the cost-effectiveness/price-point (increase) of implementing that "feature". I would think it feasible (though not "perfect") to control the "velocity/sensitivity" using a "knob", if one chooses to trigger their (virtual) drum-pad samples, with the APC40.

Without a doubt, this gem, is (now) at the tippy-top of MY "must-have" list, for beautifully facilitating (and expanding) the way that I have always used Live.

Thank you Ableton and Akai.

~S~

[MitchK1989]

yes, but it can only be done for other things after adding max for live patches to make it do so...

My point is, adding velocity sensitivity to it would increase the price for ALL (probably be almost enough if not enough to buy a separate drum pad controller) just to add one more feature which could only be used by MAX/MSP users.

[Ubiety]

My point is, adding velocity sensitivity to it would increase the price for ALL...

Have you seen a price for the APC40 listed somewhere? That's something I would like to know.

[whyterabbyt]

My point is, adding velocity sensitivity to it would increase the price for ALL...

Have you seen a price for the APC40 listed somewhere? That's something I would like to know.

399 USD/ GBP

[jopy]

those pads on the APC40 aren't drum pads... Of course they're not velocity sensitive. How would velocity affect anything when launching clips?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but when I launch loops with Battery I'm very concerned about being able to control the volume of each one on the fly--I don't imagine I'm the only one who thinks this way.

That's not the way ableton live clips work... You have an array of faders to change the volume of each one...

I think people aren't realizing exactly what those pads are for... It's for controlling live's session view... Not for laying down beats...

thanks for clarifying that; i don't use live currently, but this had me thinking it could be useful because the workflow is pretty genius and a good controller could put it over the top.

i still can imagine a world in which the volume of each clip is based on velocity of the trigger, but it sounds like that's not what live does or will ever do.

strangely, i still like good ol' battery 3 and a velocity sensitive midi keyboard.

i'm so retro.

[Ubiety]

My point is, adding velocity sensitivity to it would increase the price for ALL...

Have you seen a price for the APC40 listed somewhere? That's something I would like to know.

399 USD/ GBP

A little less expensive than a Monome Sixty Four. Was over at their site earlier. The Sixty Four goes on sale Friday, January 23 @ 1 PM EST. They're $500. Only 200 will be made.

[MitchK1989]

My point is, adding velocity sensitivity to it would increase the price for ALL...

Have you seen a price for the APC40 listed somewhere? That's something I would like to know.

399 USD/ GBP

A little less expensive than a Monome Sixty Four. Was over at their site earlier. The Sixty Four goes on sale Friday, January 23 @ 1 PM EST. They're $500. Only 200 will be made.

Oh, I don't expect that the APC will kill the monome. Both entirely different things/markets/devices, and I'm sure both will go crazy for M4L. I'm just hoping that SOME of the monome functionality is replicated on the APC (mostly mlr)...

Obviously if you just want the switches, the monome would be better (unless you can think of a reason to trade some of the buttons for different colors), whereas the APC40 benefits from faders and rotaries.

[amiga909]

Oh, I don't expect that the APC will kill the monome. Both entirely different things/markets/devices, and I'm sure both will go crazy for M4L. I'm just hoping that SOME of the monome functionality is replicated on the APC (mostly mlr)...

in some ways the APC does kill the monome: multicolor LEDs! i wanted this for ages
plus the APC has even more buttons than the sixty four, + 16/11 knobs/faders!

here some pics showing the step seq demo

[Ubiety]

Oh, I don't expect that the APC will kill the monome. Both entirely different things/markets/devices, and I'm sure both will go crazy for M4L. I'm just hoping that SOME of the monome functionality is replicated on the APC (mostly mlr)...

in some ways the APC does kill the monome: multicolor LEDs! i wanted this for ages
plus the APC has even more buttons than the sixty four, + 16/11 knobs/faders!

here some pics showing the step seq demo

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/570/ ... 825tz4.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8313 ... 825zx7.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6944 ... 826ma8.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5054 ... 827kw8.gif

In the open world you can have anything you want, if you build it yourself.

http://unsped.blogspot.com/2008/12/octinct-boiingg.html

[OverDose]

Hi Guys,
I'm starting this thread to answer any questions as best I can regarding the APC40.

To start off, here's a few answers from other threads:

How much is it?

The street prices for the APC40 should be $399 (US Map) and 449 Euro (European Street price). We'll update our website when I hear back from Akai.

When does it come out?

Hopefully April or May. Initial testing has looked great so far.

Can I use more than one of them at the same time?

Yes, though we haven't tested thoroughly as we don't have enough units, so this is an unsupported feature at the moment. You can use up to six, and each will show a different colored ring around the clips.

Do I need to own Max For Live to make the APC40 work?

No, unless you want to edit the standard template and do funky things like step sequencers and drum rack support.

Is it bus powered?

No, it has too many LEDs (around 380) to be bus powered.

What are the physical dimensions and weight?

Quote:
"The top is 42cm wide, it is 33,5cm deep and the height is around 6,5cm aka it is pretty much backpack compatible."

It may not be exact to every millimeter as this is no spec sheet info but freshly reverse engineered the old school on the device itself way using a ruler.

In one of the NAMM videos, somebody at AKAI proudly mentions a secret handshake between Live and the APC. But other reports seem to indicate that this unit just sends out MIDI. Does the device or Live send anything other than MIDI signals?

The APC Sends simple midi messages, and most of the banking and Session View control is handled internally in Live. Connecting another controller and selecting the APC40 preset will not work, even if that controller sends the same MIDI messages.

Will this secret handshake prevent us from turning a Monome + BCR into an APC?

Yes.

First up, the triggers, I understand they are not velocity sensitive which I think is perfect for triggering clips, what is the action like though are they like pads or buttons, is there a button like up-down motion or not.

I could describe this, but you'll have to check it out for yourself. They are similar to an Akai XR20.

Secondly, how can anybody justify $399 and €449, €449 is equal to $579.
It makes no sense whatsoever ?

Akai sets the pricing, sorry it doesn't meet your needs. I'll pass on your thoughts.

So is there an easy editor for the controller mappings?

No, if you want to change the default mapping you'll need to mess around under the hood with Max for Live.

Is there a possibility that there is going to be an RGB version later?

This is the first dedicated controller for Live's Session View and the one we are supporting and focusing on for the time being, though it's likely not the last. Please feel free to add controller ideas + suggestions to this thread. I would love to see controllers for all different needs, with RGB, or better clip names. But we need to balance cost and development time for these sorts of things. We are still a small company -- and so is Akai Professional (not to be confused with the Japanese Akai, from which is split many years ago).

Will it be possible to use the APC with Live 7 out of the box with default mapping intact, or will I have to purchase live 8 to use the APC.

We'll have a point release update for Live 7 with support for the APC40 in Live's preferences, Live 8 will work with the APC40 when it is released.

The faders are not motorized. How does that work if you bank through a few channels ?

As motorized faders were not possible at this pricing, these will follow the takeover mode (see 23.1.3 Takeover Mode in the manual for more info).

Could you confirm if Akai will be shafting people in the UK with the price as well, or if the shafting is just limited to people in Euro countries?

It's nobody's intention to shaft anyone -- but various distribution and dealer costs affect how products like this are priced internationally. I'm not sure of the UK pricing but will post here when I know.

So the APC and Live 8 don't come out until mid to late April. Then toss in another 3 or 4 months of bug fixing. So we're talking maybe July or August before this combo can be trusted. Not hatin', just sayin'.

It seems to be working just fine in 7 and 8 for me already, we're testing hard and will fix any problems that arise as soon as we can. The APC40 has simple firmware that sends simple MIDI messages, so we are able to quickly jump on any problems with a software update.

How many tracks/scenes can I navigate to?

With the banking buttons, you can move around a 64 track by 125 scene grid. i.e. when you press the shift button, and press the second button down in the second row, you'd be move the ring to tracks 9-16 and scenes 6-10. The scene buttons 1-5 move you to extra banks of scenes, i.e. scene 1 button lets you select 5 banks of scenes from 1-25, scene button 2 brings up 5 more banks of scenes from 26-50, and so on.

Why did you include X feature? Why didn't you include Y feature?

We debated every last button on this controller and tried to come to a consensus that would help the most users, and come in at a reasonable price -- for instance, RGB LEDs or velocity sensitive clip triggers would have driven up the price substantially. I'm happy to explain why we did or didn't include functionality below.

I'm on the road a lot but will try my best to answer any questions you have about the what, when, how and why here when I have time.
Best,
Jesse

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=826244#826244

[adamszabo]

We still dont know the name of that vst and company that start with A

[amiga909]

In one of the NAMM videos, somebody at AKAI proudly mentions a secret handshake between Live and the APC. But other reports seem to indicate that this unit just sends out MIDI. Does the device or Live send anything other than MIDI signals?

The APC Sends simple midi messages, and most of the banking and Session View control is handled internally in Live. Connecting another controller and selecting the APC40 preset will not work, even if that controller sends the same MIDI messages.

Will this secret handshake prevent us from turning a Monome + BCR into an APC?

Yes.

First up, the triggers, I understand they are not velocity sensitive which I think is perfect for triggering clips, what is the action like though are they like pads or buttons, is there a button like up-down motion or not.

I could describe this, but you'll have to check it out for yourself. They are similar to an Akai XR20.


So is there an easy editor for the controller mappings?

No, if you want to change the default mapping you'll need to mess around under the hood with Max for Live.

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=826244#826244

thanks for the info overdose

still unclear for me:
- 1. if the APC can control something else than Ableton Live?
"The APC Sends simple midi messages": sounds very good
- 2. if the APC can be programmed by something else than Max For Live?
"if you want to change the default mapping you'll need to mess around under the hood with Max for Live": hmmmm.. if I'd need to buy ableton 8 (~600$), the software would be more expensive than the hardware

[Ubiety]

As much as I like the APC40 all in one solution, I think I'd opt for a Live 8/M4L/Monome combo. Why? Because the Monome already has a vibrant and inventive user community built into the purchase. Lots of Max apps being shared that do lots of what most folks would like their controllers to do. And I think I'd throw in a couple of BCR2000s to top it off. (If I were feeling really spendy I'd get two Remote Zero SLs w/Automap 3 Pro.)