KVR Audio

DrWashington · Post by **DrWashington** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:41 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Brian Eno used to argue that the only major difference between the FM7 and original DX range was the originals had snappier envelopes. He still preferred the FM7 on balance though but although I haven't got a real DX I know how important snappy envelopes are to making certain sounds. What I don't know is whether NI addressed this issue when they updated to the FM8 or if other DX synths have (I suspect Hexter and DX Heaven might have) - my G2 also does some great DX sounds and it has fast envelopes.

I really liked FM7, for the most part. Until I heard VOPM. Now, I'm totally spoiled, and can't really go back. They screwed up FM8, imho, in that the Op copy/paste function was done away with. WTF?! Why? Why do these companies feel the need to 'fix' what ain't broken? Blows my friggin' mind... it really does. Don't get me started on Battery 3...

DrWashington · Post by **DrWashington** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:48 pm

DavidRadi2 wrote:Toxic Biohazard - You'll get with it also Toxic 3 - Toxic is really great sounding and easy to program - great price for 2 synths with a bit different sound character

Octopus - Nice sound and assignable envelopes instead of LFO's help you design interesting moving patches - great price too

Disco DSP Phantom - check the demo and then buy it from german magazine Beat with 6 Eur including the dellivery / at least in Europe / - Full uncrippled version!!! It's in 2 of the older numbers and you can find more like: Tracktion 2, H.G.Fortune's synths, NI Metaphysical something, Acoustica Audio...and also some LE versions like Drumazon, Predator, Artillery...you'll find them on falkemedia.de

Adonis - great sound for a freeware FM, as the others sound a bit dull to me

And yes FM8 - Classic, but as I have all the ones I mentioned here I'm not sure if I need it as it's 200 Eur. Not having any of these, could be the winner because of the functions, but I like most of all the sound of Toxic Biohazard as it has some character that makes it great synth for industrial

I'm sorry, but I think FM8 is just a bit overrated. Feature-laden, sure, but it leaves something to be desired. I use it, still, and I MISS THE FREAKIN' Operator copy-paste function that was in FM7, but there's no way I can pretend for a moment that it sounds anywhere close to VOPM. It just doesn't/can't. But then, VOPM isn't anywhere near as flexible. VOPM engine with FM8 interface + copy/paste = FM heaven.

slickinc · Post by **slickinc** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:45 am

none are: The VSTi your looking for is Massive

DrWashington · Post by **DrWashington** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:06 am

slickinc wrote:none are: The VSTi your looking for is Massive

Ummm... I have Massive. Not sure whose post your replying to, but...I like it well enough... but it sounds nowhere close to Zebra or Sylenth. It can do more, but there's something missing. I've programmed some really sick sounds from Massive, but once tweakage commences, the treble end digital 'fluff' is just unlistenable.

Contrast with Zebra, which can get really nasty, but nasty in a good, 'I meant it to sound like that' way. Pretty subjective, but still... I think these NI sound engines just really aren't as good as they could be. And, they're processor heavy in the worst way. Like, why does that simple little cheesy C64 patch in Massive, which uses the 'economy' setting by default, chew up around 50% of my proc time? I'm using a Q6000 (2.4GHz quad), btw.

ianweb123 · Post by **ianweb123** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:27 am

DrWashington wrote: VOPM engine with FM8 interface + copy/paste = FM heaven.

Did you intend the FM Heaven reference (loftsoft)

MaliceX · Post by **MaliceX** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:03 am

VOPM is "the" free FM synth to go to, really. Apparently a lot of oldschool FM enthusiasts (there's an English-speaking forum holding this to high regard) and japanese musicians still use it today.

8-op? Someone try turning the OSC parameters found in htsfms v0.96 into a VSTi!

DrWashington · Post by **DrWashington** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:41 pm

ianweb123 wrote:
DrWashington wrote: VOPM engine with FM8 interface + copy/paste = FM heaven.
Did you intend the FM Heaven reference (loftsoft)

Heh... nope. This is the first I've heard of it. Is it any good? Didn't look too impressive, but neither does VOPM, which is.

teknobryan · Post by **teknobryan** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:51 pm

surprised no mention of the Ableton Operator...

MitchK1989 · Post by **MitchK1989** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:53 pm

teknobryan wrote:surprised no mention of the Ableton Operator...

It's generally assumed here that we're talking about plugins, since no one is going to switch hosts just for an FM synth.

lionscub68 · Post by **lionscub68** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:15 pm

Okay

Granted, I used to love my DX100
and diddled with a TX81Z in my time
They had their place in history, sort of like dinosaurs.
but overall
FM s u c k s .. .. .. ..

I wish someone would just get on with it and make a Roland JX10 emulation already (I mean a true bonafide can't-tell-the-diff VSTi model).

Muzik 4 Machines · Post by **Muzik 4 Machines** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:17 pm

fm doesnt sucks if you know how to use it, especially FM with a filter(DX200, fs1r, fm7/8, etc)

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:04 pm

Muzik 4 Machines wrote:fm doesnt sucks if you know how to use it, especially FM with a filter(DX200, fs1r, fm7/8, etc)

I've had FM8 for a good while now. In many respects it is an impressive synth, and there are some sounds I like, but it just does not have much sass or bite.

FXpansions new Cypher is more my idea of FM these days.

ianweb123 · Post by **ianweb123** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:36 pm

DrWashington wrote:
ianweb123 wrote:
DrWashington wrote: VOPM engine with FM8 interface + copy/paste = FM heaven.
Did you intend the FM Heaven reference (loftsoft)

Heh... nope. This is the first I've heard of it. Is it any good? Didn't look too impressive, but neither does VOPM, which is.

IIRC it could load DX7 sysex, and to my ears it was one of the more faithful Yamaha FM clones

DrWashington · Post by **DrWashington** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:14 am

MitchK1989 wrote:
teknobryan wrote:surprised no mention of the Ableton Operator...
It's generally assumed here that we're talking about plugins, since no one is going to switch hosts just for an FM synth.

I am Ableton Live 7 user, in addition to Cubase. I would love to be able to use Ableton plugins in other hosts. Live is a truly innovative program, but I prefer Cubase for composition so far.

Also, in reference to whomever it was that said "overall, FM sucks"... puh-leeeease. If you've never actually programmed FM yourself, you might believe something like that. More accurately, "overall, FM PRESETS suck". I would agree with that. I've made some of the most inspiring sounds I've EVER DONE ON ANY SYNTH with FM7, without use of a filter. You cannot make FM work without taking some time to program your own envelopes. Once you learn how, you'll be hooked.

VOPM is a little monster. A little, underrated monster. For sounds with toughness, bite, and real character, it's pure gold. Zebra is great, too, but very processor heavy once things start getting complicated.

I really think it's incredibly ignorant to dismiss an entire synthesis technique out of hand. Seriously, that's pretty lame.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:25 am

See sig... under projects, might be a starting point for some old FM synth emulations.

Actually the difference between FMHeaven, Phantom and VOPM is, that the first two can load hardware sysex, though Phantom has the bigger compatibility. Downside on it though, on 1:1 tests, this VSTi might fail. Happened at least for DiscoDSP Discovery (Nord Lead Clone), though it IS a close call.

FM Heaven is unfortunately discontinued if I remember correctly, Phantom was bundled with a BEAT issue (got it myself this way), else it's still available via DiscoDSP. And VOPM, yupp, your best bet if you want an emulation of that particular soundchip.

Definitely need to update my research list again...

The Fight for FM