The Fight for FM

[TristezaOrange]

Ok I had to do it all by ear, because I still can't figure out the VOPM settings, they don't even match what I'm reading in a DX7 manual.
I don't know what TL, MUL, DT1, DT2 are, and the doc is in jap.
So I guess it'll be better if you pick an existing DX7 patch (& its rendition from a DX7), so that we have something we can import to start with.

http://anothergol.googlepages.com/China2.mp3
(they're both in it)

[gulp] I can't hear a significant difference.

[living sounds]

Ok I had to do it all by ear, because I still can't figure out the VOPM settings, they don't even match what I'm reading in a DX7 manual.
I don't know what TL, MUL, DT1, DT2 are, and the doc is in jap.
So I guess it'll be better if you pick an existing DX7 patch (& its rendition from a DX7), so that we have something we can import to start with.

http://anothergol.googlepages.com/China2.mp3
(they're both in it)

That's not music, it's just a single tone! Play an arpeggio, a sequence, chords etc. It's all about how the small differences pan out in the big picture.

[tony tony chopper]

there actually is in the attack, but I'd need accurate values for FM amounts & envelope attack time, because it's both that really shape the transient.

[tony tony chopper]

That's not music, it's just a single tone!

You won't have a difference in the 'bass', 'color' or whatever that appears in music but not single tones, will you?
It's the keyboard mapping that will matter for the music you play, and you said nothing about this originally. Sytrus & FM7 are more than able to keyboard map pretty much any parameter, but do I really have to waste my time copying that too?
Instead I will show what today's FM synths can do that the old stuff couldn't.
(first is VOPM)
http://anothergol.googlepages.com/China3.mp3

Btw: it's pretty clear by now that you did not try to copy a DX7 preset into FM7 and you only judged by what was there.

[living sounds]

Since someone requested it: Here's an example of the Roland sampler's sound:

www.scherer.de/Download/Roland.rar

I've included a .wav recording, the midi file (play it back at 90BMP), the patch converted to .gig-Format and the short wave file the sampler uses. Try to recreate it in a software sampler if you like, most of them can import .gig-Format.
Especially notice how snappy the envelopes sound on the high notes in the middle of the recording. That old hardware sampler has some great envelopes and filters (all digital). It cost a fortune back in the early 90s, nowadays you can pick them up for a fraction of that money (that's what I did). It's got an instant finished "audio-logo, cinema-commercial, movie-soundtrack" quality to it.

[living sounds]

You won't have a difference in the 'bass', 'color' or whatever that appears in music but not single tones, will you?
It's the keyboard mapping that will matter for the music you play, and you said nothing about this originally. Sytrus & FM7 are more than able to keyboard map pretty much any parameter, but do I really have to waste my time copying that too?
Instead I will show what today's FM synths can do that the old stuff couldn't.
(first is VOPM)
http://anothergol.googlepages.com/China3.mp3

I like your patch! What is it?

Btw: it's pretty clear by now that you did not try to copy a DX7 preset into FM7 and you only judged by what was there.

The patches I posted (DXtest.rar) are all DX7 presets loaded directly into the TX7 and imported without anything changed into FM7.

[tony tony chopper]

I like your patch! What is it?

first part is VOPM with your patch, then it's the Sytrus preset above with with Sytrus features.

Do you have the .dx7 files that go with your TX7 vs FM7 tests?

[MaliceX]

tony tony chopper: http://www.gorenfeld.net/lou/audio.php3
Unofficial English manual can be found there.

DX7 patches to VOPM might be a bit far-fetched, considering there's discrete algorithms, and an inability to use ratios. (I believe the OSC pitches are harmonic levels.)

[living sounds]

Do you have the .dx7 files that go with your TX7 vs FM7 tests?

Dug through the files and was able to retrieve a few: www.scherer.de/Download/DX_Syx.rar

[tony tony chopper]

I see, so VOPM isn't actually a DX7 emulator at all. (I even see it features a lowpass)

[Nokenoku]

This china sound is for the ***.

Whatever. I just tried that VPOM thing by myself. Most presets of it doesn't sound very special imo.
I think the "Clav. coad" preset (from the GM set) might show what "living sounds" means. It comes by the way with a lot of digital noise! Maybe that's the key?



Dunno, but I'd like to bring up the Wavestation VSTi. It's not an FM synth, but it's also a very old synth and it does also provide (imo) that kind of "special quality" I'm missing in a lot of modern synths.
It sounds "real".

[MaliceX]

I see, so VOPM isn't actually a DX7 emulator at all. (I even see it features a lowpass)

Right. But for what it emulates (OPM/YM2413 chip), it sure sounds faithful in that respect.

Course, I wish Helix's FM/PM OSCs supported "feedback" (Recreating sounds from VOPM to this particular synth is a challenge.)

[tony tony chopper]

Dug through the files and was able to retrieve a few:

sadly I see my DX7 import sucks even more than I thought (or I'm loading the wrong files I don't know)

[tony tony chopper]

I think the "Clav. coad" preset (from the GM set) might show what "living sounds" means.

I let someone else translating that to other synths, surely as doable

It comes by the way with a lot of digital noise! Maybe that's the key?

can't be

[Lotuzia]

Dug through the files and was able to retrieve a few:

sadly I see my DX7 import sucks even more than I thought (or I'm loading the wrong files I don't know)

Not as accurate as FM7 function (wich is STILL not perfect btw) but still better than some other pretenders Didier I can assure you (like Rhino initialising all the output levels to the same fixed average value for example )

LtZ