KVR Audio

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:46 am

koolkeys wrote: it's just basic and not real FM.

All you need for FM is a carrier and a modulator, isn't it? What do you mean by, "not real FM," PM? I don't think FM is not real, even if it is a super simple FM.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:53 am

Well, you are right. By "real" FM, I was just reffering to having full FM Synthesis instead of just some frequency modulation. Multiple operators, ratios, full matrix, etc.

Although I don't think even basic FM as seen in products like Omnisphere is a "vital" feature.

My bad choice of words, but that's it in a nutshell. Hey, if they add it, great. But it's not vital. I do make room for the chance that the writer of that post thinks it's vital to THEM, but it makes me wonder if they ever buy a VA/subtractive synth that doesn't have it?

Anyways, not trying to start anything or go further off topic. Sorry about that.

Brent

_starcraft_ · Post by **_starcraft_** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:10 am

koolkeys wrote:
_starcraft_ wrote:wow! looks great and fits nicely also on netbooks, umpcs etc..very readable and easy on the eye even on small screen.

shame for the lack of FM...which really is a vital feature.
they should really implement it....
Why? If you want real FM, get an FM synth. Most of the time when VA synths impliment "FM", it's just basic and not real FM. Why would you think that FM is a vital feature of a subtractive synth?

Just wondering, as saying it is "vital" seems a bit odd to me.

Brent

thats like saying to someone who wants a korg monopoly to get a polysix + dx7 instead.

cross modulation , xmod, fm or whatever u wanna call it for me an essential feature in any VA. it adds a variety of tones to the usual saw,pulse,triangle....its like havin more oscillator types in a way all within the familiar subtractive structure.
xmod/cross mod appeared in subtractive synths before fm synths even appeared on the market.and i do not need a fm synth.

all modern VAs have fm (virus, waldorfQ, nordlead etc)....it was also featured in what are regarded the best analog subtractives ever made : monopoly, OBX etc etc

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:29 am

I'm aware of how useful it can be. I just don't think it's a vital feature. Plenty of softsynths don't have it and they do just fine. Not that it's not useful. I even said that it would be cool to add basic frequency modulation. I just don't think it's essential.

However, I don't know of many, if any, VA's that can do FM SYNTHESIS. For that, a dedicated synth is definitely best.

I was just giving my opinion though and saying that I don't think it's vital. Nothing else was meant by my posts. Just differing opinions. Cheers!

Brent

fanfarecircuit · Post by **fanfarecircuit** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:32 am

dude... people in nashville do not say cheers.

tomg · Post by **tomg** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:35 am

fanfarecircuit wrote:dude... people in nashville do not say cheers.

.

He's been on KVR for six years. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I've come close to doing it myself and I'm from Alabama.

fanfarecircuit · Post by **fanfarecircuit** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:36 am

tomg wrote:
fanfarecircuit wrote:dude... people in nashville do not say cheers.
.

He's been on KVR for six years. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I've come close to doing it myself and I'm from Alabama.

no offense, brent. i kinda agree with you.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:37 am

tomg wrote:
fanfarecircuit wrote:dude... people in nashville do not say cheers.
.

He's been on KVR for six years. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I've come close to doing it myself and I'm from Alabama.

You are correct. It's almost uncanny, and I don't even notice it! But there are things that Nashville people say that I'll never get used to as well. I'm from the midwest, so I'm all confused now.

Brent

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:38 am

fanfarecircuit wrote:
tomg wrote:
fanfarecircuit wrote:dude... people in nashville do not say cheers.
.

He's been on KVR for six years. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I've come close to doing it myself and I'm from Alabama.

no offense, brent. i kinda agree with you.

Hehe, no offense taken at all. I let things slip in normal conversation that make my wife turn her head with curiosity. And she does the same. Easily influenced, I guess!

Brent

ouroboros · Post by **ouroboros** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:13 am

koolkeys wrote:I'm wondering how much easier or harder it is to edit in Twin2? What I liked about Twin is that it was just one interface. Everything was there(with the exception of a couple small panels and pages 2/3 of modulation) on one page.

bmaniac, did you find Twin2 easier to work with? More clicking around to find things? Or am I just worrying about nothing?

Brent

I think it is easier to work with actually. Besides being more visually appealing, the component paths are more distinct, so it is simpler to ascertain where you're headed with the mouse, if that makes sense. It takes 30s to get used to how the panels move and then it's intuitive. I really think they have done a remarkable job making 2 a synth with greater complexity but simpler interface. I feel I can dial up the sound I want faster on it than anything else right now.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:46 am

koolkeys wrote:I'm wondering how much easier or harder it is to edit in Twin2? What I liked about Twin is that it was just one interface. Everything was there(with the exception of a couple small panels and pages 2/3 of modulation) on one page.

bmaniac, did you find Twin2 easier to work with? More clicking around to find things? Or am I just worrying about nothing?

Brent

It is definitely easier to work with Twin 2, up until a point. The GUI is much clearer and thus easier to find things. However, it is a bit more convoluted if you keep opening and closing the "panels" of the filter and delay modules.

Because Twin 2 now offers up to 50 modulation slots (Twin1 had 20) a complex patch can be a real nightmare to navigate through and especially to dissect later! For instance, the piano preset uses all 50 slots and I still cannot really figure out what does what!

During beta testing I did suggest to them several times that it would be helpful to be able to give names to the modulation slots but for some reason they didn't implement this.

So, in short, answer to your question: Yes and No, depending on the complexity of the patch.

Cheers!
bManic

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:51 am

_starcraft_ wrote:
koolkeys wrote:
_starcraft_ wrote:wow! looks great and fits nicely also on netbooks, umpcs etc..very readable and easy on the eye even on small screen.

shame for the lack of FM...which really is a vital feature.
they should really implement it....
Why? If you want real FM, get an FM synth. Most of the time when VA synths impliment "FM", it's just basic and not real FM. Why would you think that FM is a vital feature of a subtractive synth?

Just wondering, as saying it is "vital" seems a bit odd to me.

Brent
thats like saying to someone who wants a korg monopoly to get a polysix + dx7 instead.

cross modulation , xmod, fm or whatever u wanna call it for me an essential feature in any VA. it adds a variety of tones to the usual saw,pulse,triangle....its like havin more oscillator types in a way all within the familiar subtractive structure.
xmod/cross mod appeared in subtractive synths before fm synths even appeared on the market.and i do not need a fm synth.

all modern VAs have fm (virus, waldorfQ, nordlead etc)....it was also featured in what are regarded the best analog subtractives ever made : monopoly, OBX etc etc

The thing is, FabFilter made their "One" synth on purpose to be extremely simple. Twin 1.0 was the successor to One and they wanted to still keep it very simple. Twin 2.0 is yet another continuation of this.

The developers have said several times that this should not be considered their "big" synth and that they have future plans of making a real mega synth, perhaps even a modular synth. So, try judging Twin as what it was intended to be not what you would like it to be.

Trust me, if there is anybody on the beta team who has had millions of feature requests for Twin, it is me (the ringmodulation is there because I pestered them about this since the first early betas of the original Twin!). I LOVE huge complex synths that can do it all. Twin was just not ever meant to be this kind of synth and slowly over the years I've started to respect this.. it took time but I think I can finally appreciate the relatively "simple" Twin 2.0.

Cheers!
bManic

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:07 am

Superb UI

core · Post by **core** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:22 am

It's on the FabFilter site now: http://www.fabfilter.com/products/twin.php

uselessmind · Post by **uselessmind** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:00 pm

Just bought it.
When playing Twin1 presets with Twin2 they sound different, something about the velocity curves and also the detune i think...

Twin 2... Released Today!!!