KVR Audio

zypher · Post by **zypher** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:41 am

Hey Guys

I found a program that scans your mp3 songs for keys, thus allowing you to mix your music (dj's) harmonically!!

My question to you is, how do i know which keys work best 2gether, it is said that certain keys/chords have a relationship with 1 anotha!! meaning when played 2gether they are in harmony.. making a mix/set almost perfect!

could some1 perhaps give me a list of keys/chords which work 2getha???

I am o noob so please REPLY lol

I found these two charts, so...! i dont know much about this so how do i read it 2 do what was said above

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BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:02 am

LOL !! (well, you asked for it

)

zypher · Post by **zypher** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:09 am

BertKoor wrote:LOL!! (well, you asked for it )

haha your funny

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:16 am

If you want to play absolutely safe: only mix songs in the same key.
What can work well is intervals of three (minor keys), four (major keys), five and seven semitones. Here's a little help table for you. Each column is a semitone:

Code: Select all

|  |C#|  |D#|  |E#|F#|  |G#|  |A#|  |B#|C#|  |D#|  |
|C |  |D |  |E |F |  |G |  |A |  |B |C |  |D |  |E |
|  |Db|  |Eb|Fb|  |Gb|  |Ab|  |Bb|Cb|  |Db|  |Eb|  |

But I question how well this software is able to determine the key correctly.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:24 am

BertKoor wrote:

Code: Select all

|  |C#|  |D#|  |E#|F#|  |G#|  |A#|  |B#|C#|  |D#|  |
|C |  |D |  |E |F |  |G |  |A |  |B |C |  |D |  |E |
|  |Db|  |Eb|Fb|  |Gb|  |Ab|  |Bb|Cb|  |Db|  |Eb|  |

So does this mean from C, I can go to either C# or Db comfortably?
Then say I choose Db, then I can go to D??

If I understand it correctly I like this chart. I like it a lot

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:31 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:So does this mean from C, I can go to either C# or Db comfortably?

No, those are intervals of just one semitone. I advised to use intervals of 3, 4, 5 or 7 semitones. So from C that would be Eb, E, F and A. You also can go down: A, Ab, G and F,

NB: C# and Db are different names for one and the same note.

Mushy Mushy wrote:I like this chart. I like it a lot

It's just a little cheat sheet for note names on piano keyboards. Very basic stuff...
Maybe I should reorder the rows, so you can clearly see white & black keys:

Code: Select all

|  |C#|  |D#|  |  |F#|  |G#|  |A#|  |  |C#|  |D#|  |
|  |Db|  |Eb|  |  |Gb|  |Ab|  |Bb|  |  |Db|  |Eb|  | 
|B#|  |  |  |Fb|E#|  |  |  |  |  |Cb|B#|  |  |  |Fb| 
|C |  |D |  |E |F |  |G |  |A |  |B |C |  |D |  |E |

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:34 am

BertKoor wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote:So does this mean from C, I can go to either C# or Db comfortably?
No, those are intervals of just one semitone. I advised to use intervals of 3, 4, 5 or 7 semitones. So from C that would be Eb, E, F and A. You also can go down: A, Ab, G and F,

NB: C# and Db are different names for one and the same note.

Mushy Mushy wrote:I like this chart. I like it a lot
It's just a little cheat sheet for note names on piano keyboards. Very basic stuff...

Thanks for explaining that mate. Musical theory is a topic I have zero idea about.... I usually just hit notes on my keyboard until I find one that sounds good. I suspect some theory will save me a HUGE amount of time writing...

zypher · Post by **zypher** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:40 am

BertKoor wrote:If you want to play absolutely safe: only mix songs in the same key.
What can work well is intervals of three (minor keys), four (major keys), five and seven semitones. Here's a little help table for you. Each column is a semitone:
Code: Select all
|  |C#|  |D#|  |E#|F#|  |G#|  |A#|  |B#|C#|  |D#|  |
|C |  |D |  |E |F |  |G |  |A |  |B |C |  |D |  |E |
|  |Db|  |Eb|Fb|  |Gb|  |Ab|  |Bb|Cb|  |Db|  |Eb|  |
But I question how well this software is able to determine the key correctly.

I dont understand what you mean by intervals? noob here so could you please elaborate a bit more on your reply.

these are the keys the software gave me, the programs called Rapid Evolution!

Code: Select all

02B(F#) - 08A(Am) - 01B(B) - 08b(C) - 08A(AM) - 03B(C#) - 05B(D#) - 01B(B) - 08A(AM) - 10B(D) - 08B(C) - 07B(F) - 06A(Gm) - 07A(Dm) - 11A(F#m) - 09A(Em) - 04A(Fm) - 05A(Cm) - 03A(A#m)

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with these keys i gave above, could you put them in harmonic order, will make it much easier fro me to understand if i can play it now and see what happens

nix808 · Post by **nix808** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:03 pm

1 interval=1 tone or semitone depending what's next up or down

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:10 pm

Isn't it possible to just use your ear when mixing songs? If the keys are not working with each other, can't you just put a different song in its place or change the pitch?

wakax · Post by **wakax** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:14 pm

there is no such thing as "harmonic" mixing based on a chart. its another comercial trick to sell some soft. use your ear ! and your sensibility. and your intuition. and skills.

yes - it could help you to sort/filter songs quicker. but thats it.
* i did over 130 mixes and radio shows
yes - you can mix using the chart and being tonedeaf but whats the point !?

from my experience -
best tool to mix offline:
Mixmeister ( VERY acurate bpm/key detection ! )
http://www.mixmeister.com/

best tool to mix live:
NI Traktor Pro ( very handy for live )
http://www.native-instruments.com/newre ... aktor-pro/

Rangtangtang · Post by **Rangtangtang** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:15 pm

I think its just meant to make it quicker. No one mentioned tempo. Did you ever make a mix tape, try making one whith the most diverse music you can imagine, that is allways fun.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:26 pm

zypher wrote:I dont understand what you mean by intervals? noob here so could you please elaborate a bit more on your reply.

An interval is the distance between two notes on the piano. From C to B it's one semitone down. From C to D it's two semitones up (the black C# is inbetween.)

zypher wrote:these are the keys the software gave me, the programs called Rapid Evolution!
02B(F#) - 08A(Am) - 01B(B) - 08b(C) - 08A(AM) - 03B(C#) - 05B(D#) - 01B(B) - 08A(AM) - 10B(D) - 08B(C) - 07B(F) - 06A(Gm) - 07A(Dm) - 11A(F#m) - 09A(Em) - 04A(Fm) - 05A(Cm) - 03A(A#m)
with these keys i gave above, could you put them in harmonic order, will make it much easier fro me to understand if i can play it now and see what happens

This is the result of an analysis of 19 different tunes, right?

First I have to repeat myself:

BertKoor wrote:I question how well this software is able to determine the key correctly.

But assuming it does it's job correctly, read the following advice again:

To select a compatible song, choose a keycode within one "hour" of your current keycode. If you are in 8A, you can play 7A, 8A or 9A next. If you are in 12A, you can play 11A, 12A or 1A. This mix will be smooth every time.

You can also mix between inner and outer wheels if you stay in the same "hour." For example, try mixing from 8A to 8B, and notice the change in melody as you go from Minor to Major.

There are many many possibilities. This is just one:

01B(B)
02B(F#)
03B(C#)
03A(A#m)
04A(Fm)
05A(Cm)
06A(Gm)
07A(Dm)
08A(AM)
08A(Am)
09A(Em)

I've followed their rules strictly: only go up one number or switch from A to B or vice versa. This is a stricter limitation than the intervals I've listed. Here you only switch a perfect fifth (7 semitones) up or down (same as 5 semitones down or up, since there are 12 semitones in an octave).

But you're left with the following songs, since they cannot connect to the others directly:

05B(D#)
07B(F)
08B(C)
10B(D)
11A(F#m)

And maybe there are possibilities that do sound good, although your Camelot wheel system says don't do it. Just experiment...

zypher · Post by **zypher** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:37 pm

this is the program im using

http://www.mixshare.com/wiki/doku.php?id=installation

thanks alot for the usefull replies..much appreciated

harmonic mixing???