The Fight for FM

[DrWashington]

anyway, plz point to a VOPM preset that sounds good. Even though I don't understand anything (except the OP algo) of that UI (and it being japanese doesn't help), I'll try to replicate it.

Well, you've just revealed yourself. LEARN TO PROGRAM THE DAMN THING! It's not that hard! When have presets EVER been the holy grail of synthesis? Seriously, Dude! When?

Synthesizers are made for tweakin'! If you ain't into that, please go get a Triton, and leave us alone.

I'm not going to supply you with any presets, though I have many, as I find your whole mission here laughable. What are you trying to prove, anyway?

[DrWashington]

sadly I see my DX7 import sucks even more than I thought (or I'm loading the wrong files I don't know)

Try this one:

www.scherer.de/Download/DXFiles.rar

I just recorded it. The sysex-file is included, the program changes in the midi file refer to the correct patches.

BTW, I think when it comes to clarity and absense of harshness VOPM sounds even better than my TX7. The latter one has a pretty bad opamp on its output.

You're the man, L.S.

This is exactly what I'm finding with VOPM. I can't believe people are asking for presets to "prove it", and with much hostility. PROGRAM THE GODDAMN THING! Seriously! WTF?! It's a synthesizer, right?

VOPM sounds glorious. I've been enjoying it much with Uhbik plugs... low CPU hit, gloriously rich FM...

[MaliceX]

Are people seriously that f**king lazy to click on a link I've already given them!?

English VOPM manual, AGAIN: http://www.gorenfeld.net/lou/VOPM.pdf

Anyway, as for getting VOPM to sound great, like any basic synthesizer without a DSP or effects joint (other than LP), it WILL sound stale alone, but CAN stand on its own when a song is put together with many instances of one synth.

I'll get about to putting some examples together sometime.

Keep in mind, the chip this was based off, the music originally made for it had used a monophonic/low bitrate PCM (DAC/PPZ?) track, as well as the use of some PSG (square waves hoho), and of course echo tracks with detuning/panning to substitute for a reverb The uses of VOPM, however, these guys seem to be the kings of that: http://www.soundshock.se/phpBB2/

[DrWashington]

Are people seriously that f**king lazy to click on a link I've already given them!?

English VOPM manual, AGAIN: http://www.gorenfeld.net/lou/VOPM.pdf

Anyway, as for getting VOPM to sound great, like any basic synthesizer without a DSP or effects joint (other than LP), it WILL sound stale alone, but CAN stand on its own when a song is put together with many instances of one synth.

I'll get about to putting some examples together sometime.

Keep in mind, the chip this was based off, the music originally made for it had used a monophonic/low bitrate PCM (DAC/PPZ?) track, as well as the use of some PSG (square waves hoho), and of course echo tracks with detuning/panning to substitute for a reverb The uses of VOPM, however, these guys seem to be the kings of that: http://www.soundshock.se/phpBB2/

Man, there's some great stuff on here! I'm reminded of Thunder Force IV... don't roll your eyes, old people... these Japanese were seriously amazing artists and musicians. Seriously.

See, this is what I want: the complexity and character of FM and additive to be resurrected in house music. There's so much boring electro crap being made today that is making a mockery of the genre. Some electro house is great, but very little compared to all that's being made. And don't even get me started on minimal...

I'm working my day job way more than I would like these days, but one way or another, I'm going to bring this dream to fruition, with help or without.

[MaliceX]

these Japanese were seriously amazing artists and musicians. Seriously.

In the 80's/90's yeah. No question about it, the amount of creativity in their work is just stunning. (Seriously, anyone that's played an old console video game would easily remember the music, composed by the Japanese.) I think they were one of the majorities that really brought out the qualities of FM Synthesis in general!

Often these things go overlooked unless you're a lucky sod to even experience listening to them. Generally speaking, of course, there ARE some rather crappy stuff, but not as bad as most American console video game music were...)

There's still some of these remnants floating around today (In sparse forms, or unmarketed activities such as Famicompo [NES chip music composing/covering, some rather mad stuff here, it's hard to believe.]), while the growing market of post-alternative-inspired-emo-punk-J-Rock rubbish takes over present day. (It isn't only the Western Nations suffering from musical degradation in quality, compositionally-wise.)

EDIT: On SOundShock forums, Ryu Umemoto, one of the members there, composed some stunning FM music for Adult games made for the NEC PC-98 system, back in the day. Glad he's using VOPM today.

[MaliceX]

Just a reminder, I really like how VOPM works multitimbrally with GM MIDI's, other than channel 10 (drums) being substituted for a melodic patch. At leat RPN/NRPN parameters, portamento and whatnot work through MIDI messages.

I just wish it had a global transpose button so instruments weren't the wrong octave.

[tony tony chopper]

this useless thread is still going?

I'm not going to supply you with any presets, though I have many, as I find your whole mission here laughable.

Are you retarded? I'm not the one saying that VOPM sounds good, that's why I was asking for one of its preset that sounds good to your ears. I was given one & replicated it in another synth.
I don't think you even know what the conversation was about.

What are you trying to prove, anyway

That anything this FM synth does, others can. Read the thread.

VOPM sounds glorious

It certainly does, but no one will ever know it, because we're not worth hearing your amazing presets, right?
I've made amazing music with this one:

..but you won't hear it. Just learn how to program it yourself!

[DrWashington]

Look... OK. Rather than going to the trouble to upload some presets, I'll just tell you what to try... RTFM, and then do this:

Add some nice reverb. Not too much. Convolution is nice. Uhbik-A is nice. Whatever. Just something to stereo-ize it some.

Then, get to programming. Don't be lazy, man, and don't question my intelligence. You sound like a jerk, all the way through this thread, MOST of which I have read. It's a long, often boring thread, admittedly.

The esoteric arguments into philosophy of sound made me roll my eyes a few times. Parts of this thread are a bit useless. Some of it is really interesting. I'd rather be making music than arguing about why a certain sound grabs me, so I've refrained from doing that too much.

Please, lighten up a bit. I know you're like a man on a mission & shit, but geez... don't get your panties in a bunch over FM if you don't really like it much anyway.

I use FM8/FM7 quite a bit, and, I'm sorry, but the character and sonic 'bite' is just not the same as VOPM. They sound different. Sorry, but they do. Presets won't really show you much, anyway. Tweaking, understanding the dynamics of a synth, will. I don't dislike FM8, except for a couple of workflow oversights. Overall, it's useful, though. It's great for HUGE and very midi-learnt, dynamic sounds, in particular. I like it for that quite a bit. VOPM is very different, though. VOPM tears. It rips. It doesn't fluff, it doesn't whiz or whisp or fizzle. It sizzles. I like that.

Please, get over yourself. If you don't give a crap about FM much anyway, why bother skulking around on this thread?

I'll say it again: what are you trying to prove? What will "VOPM's presets" prove to you? When I got VOPM it didn't HAVE any damn presets. All I've heard, I've made. And, I love it. I don't use presets as "sounds" in most cases. I use them as "checkpoints", areas from which to tweak. Reminders. Therefore, I think sharing them is kinda pointless, as they don't have much magic outside the context of the project for which/during which they were made.

I'm TIRED of ROMPLERS, and other BS that is responsible for making music sound really tired these days. I wish people would get more into dynamic timbre shifting. f**k presets, except as reference. If you can't/won't tweak your own knobs, I think the likelihood that you're contributing to the current burgeoning bullshitization of electronic music these days is very high. You should've stuck with ska.

If I could get sounds out of tweaking your pink Japanese kitty dildo thing, I'd probably just leave it to you anyway. You're probably much better at that. Much more practice, you know.

[whyterabbyt]

and don't question my intelligence.

thats kinda hard when you've missed the entire point of what he's asking, even after having had it explained to you.

[tony tony chopper]

I'll say it again: what are you trying to prove?

The fact is (again), FM is a pretty simple algo and 2 FM synths shouldn't sound different, as long as they cover the same features. Considering it's pretty easy to cover the features of chips of the 80's, what I was claiming is that today's synths can do the same as the more limited ones, and only add features.

So you can come & claim that they sound better, use the usual bullcrap adjectives to descrive their sound, it's still a simple algo behind and YOU should have to prove your point that today's better FM synths can't match those old things.
But you don't, and more, you don't even wanna share any good-sounding FM patch, because we're not worth it I guess. Someone did, I replicated it in another synth, and you don't seem to be happy with that. You also look like a hyperactive guy who writes novels about things that aren't any related to the subject.

[living sounds]

tony, did the example with the midi file work for you?

[tony tony chopper]

tony, did the example with the midi file work for you?

Checking, they're pretty classic FM, surely doable in most synths.

As I wrote my envelope times import sucks but for what it's worth, here's an alternate version based on the rough import of one of them.

http://anothergol.googlepages.com/DXImp.mp3

Someone who has hours to spend will surely replicate exactly the same. Should require less tweaking if imported in FM7. If you import in something that adapts DX7 presets and it sounds different, first check envelopes (but it's not easy).

[living sounds]

tony, did the example with the midi file work for you?

Checking, they're pretty classic FM, surely doable in most synths.

As I wrote my envelope times import sucks but for what it's worth, here's an alternate version based on the rough import of one of them.

http://anothergol.googlepages.com/DXImp.mp3

Someone who has hours to spend will surely replicate exactly the same. Should require less tweaking if imported in FM7. If you import in something that adapts DX7 presets and it sounds different, first check envelopes (but it's not easy).

Thanks, I'll have a listen. But regarding the "someone will surely be able to"-comment - that's the thing, you now. People on this board love to say this, "it can surely be replicated in software" etc., yet I haven't heard anyone actually do it. I know I can't do it...

[Aroused by JarJar]

tony, did the example with the midi file work for you?

Checking, they're pretty classic FM, surely doable in most synths.

As I wrote my envelope times import sucks but for what it's worth, here's an alternate version based on the rough import of one of them.

http://anothergol.googlepages.com/DXImp.mp3

Someone who has hours to spend will surely replicate exactly the same. Should require less tweaking if imported in FM7. If you import in something that adapts DX7 presets and it sounds different, first check envelopes (but it's not easy).

Thanks, I'll have a listen. But regarding the "someone will surely be able to"-comment - that's the thing, you now. People on this board love to say this, "it can surely be replicated in software" etc., yet I haven't heard anyone actually do it. I know I can't do it...

Try duplicating the soundfiles I posted in your hardware. You know damn well you can't (and if you saw the code you'd know why ).

[tony tony chopper]

I haven't heard anyone actually do it.

I did, for 1 of your presets. But it took way too much time - it's pretty hard to copy a patch in anything.
Try to copy a DX7 sound in a DX7 itself, you'll see it will take you hours, if you manage to. And that obviously won't prove that a DX7 cannot do what a DX7 does.

Seriously, what's in your audio files are very typical FM, you'll get them from any synth. We all heard that kind of thing for years in games 20 years ago, and there wasn't anything mystical in those crap adlib soundcards.