KVR Audio

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:41 am

Hey folks,

My little problem has been present for quite a while. But my most recent project is the straw that broke the camels back, I suppose. I need some intervention, help me get on the right path.

When I make a dancey track, I prefer it to be more on the house side of things. But after working for a few hours, I take a step back and listen, and WHAP, I get hit in the face by a giant wad of tarnce. It might still sound good, but it's not what I wanted.

I'm guessing it's the chords I use, or perhaps my rhythmic tendencies. I'm not really sure. I was hoping someone could offer up the patterns they see in house, or the differences between it and trance. Or perhaps speculate on where I'm crossing the line, what I should avoid. Or maybe there's some newbie musician tendencies I could be made aware of that tends towards these over-dramatic results.

I realize that there's a potential issue with peoples' varying definition of what those genres entail, but lets try to get past that. If you've got thoughts, I'd like to read em according to your experience, your lens.

Thanks for reading!

aallvor · Post by **aallvor** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:58 am

If you posted something, it would be easier to tell where you're going wrong

stimresp · Post by **stimresp** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:59 am

Hi,

No expert, but a few tips that have helped me:

- Listen more closely to your favourite House Tracks - really nail what it is you like about them.

- Bring the tempo down. Reduce the complexity of the drum track and aim for emphasis on the interplay between kick and bass.

- Get a nice rhodes sound - Mr Tramp does the job nicely.

- Try composing in Minor keys. Depending on what you like, you could just repeat the same rhodes chord over and over - but it has to be an interesting chord, like suspended chords for a dissonant feel. Try more complex Jazz chords like 9ths and 13ths.

- experiment and have fun. Rome wasn't built in a day!

Ja

Mr. Tunes · Post by **Mr. Tunes** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:08 am

good tips from stimresp. make sure you don't go over 128 bpm, but even producing that fast you're heading into the territory you're trying to avoid.

don't use the arpeggiators or anything of that sort. if you use pad sounds try to make sure they are more on the analog side rather than the stuff you'd hear from a virus or something. overall you have to be careful if you pull out a synth like v-station, even though it can do some things in House well, it has a ton of tarncy patches.

if you can't play jazz, sample some records and play little snippets back in a sampler. i think House music is about finding a good medium between playing some of your own parts and doing creative sampling. a lot of House producers can't play a much beyond basic piano so you have to reprogram your head and lower your skill level if you're a technical musician. and i guess it's not even about skill, but more just not thinking too much. trance is so epic and detailed, whereas House is sort of free-flowing

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:09 pm

Why don't you allow the music to go where it wants to go? It might work itself out to be something surprising to you. Sometimes a composer can try to over control a piece but end up killing it.

janzak · Post by **janzak** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:21 pm

Hey man! Not sure if this can help you but I sat through the demos made with the samples from Vengeance Sounds, which are composed of many many different club, electro and house loops and tracks. Listen through the demos!

Something might strike you

Liquidclear · Post by **Liquidclear** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:02 pm

Start with Tarnce first and maybe it'll turn into House

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:40 pm

Liquidclear wrote:Start with Tarnce first and maybe it'll turn into House

lol yeah, I know right?

Ogg Vorbis wrote:Why don't you allow the music to go where it wants to go? It might work itself out to be something surprising to you. Sometimes a composer can try to over control a piece but end up killing it.

Perhaps. But I have plenty of trancey projects now, plenty. And not so much lighter stuff. Even if I kill a few projects, it seems a noble experiment to expand my range.

Mr. Tunes wrote:a lot of House producers can't play a much beyond basic piano so you have to reprogram your head and lower your skill level if you're a technical musician. and i guess it's not even about skill, but more just not thinking too much. trance is so epic and detailed, whereas House is sort of free-flowing

I've been accused of overthinking a project before, so this flashes a red light to me. But reprogramming my head, as you put it, sounds difficult, and I'm not sure how I'd go about it.

And you're right about tempo. I start most things @ 128, which is really pushing it.

And thank you stimresp. I'll try those suggestions.

aallvor wrote:If you posted something, it would be easier to tell where you're going wrong

Yeah, I looked through my stuff to find something thatd be a good example, but alas....

One of the things that really makes this tough is that my preference really rides the line between the two genres, so it's pretty easy to go too far one way. =op

I appreciate the help guys. If anyone else has thoughts, fire away.

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:50 pm

When starting a project focus on the groove instead of melody.

daniel-b · Post by **daniel-b** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:22 pm

Maybe it is the chord progressions, i have sometimes similar problems. I tend to do a classic cadence, instead of a funky lick.

I think it's more easy to do a funky or groovy bassline before you throw some chords in...

tboulette · Post by **tboulette** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:19 pm

djanthonyw wrote:When starting a project focus on the groove instead of melody.

While I haven't heard your attempts (so it's hard to know), I suspect this suggestion is closest to being on the right track. House is a lot less rigid rhythmically. DON'T program your parts, except maybe the kick drum -- play them by hand, with a enough takes to get 'em grooving right.

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:19 pm

I see what you're getting at, thank you.
Problem is I can't really play piano... And I think I'm pretty dang good at comping up with engaging motives with the pencil tool.
Although, it definitely doesn't have that random element like an improvising instrumentalist....

I want money so I can do piano lessons again. ><

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:25 pm

You don't have to be able to actually "play" the grooves, you can play with the swing function on your drum machine or midi editor.

Oliver Clothesoff · Post by **Oliver Clothesoff** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:15 pm

go tarnce musics go!

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:20 pm

djanthonyw wrote:When starting a project focus on the groove instead of melody.

This is the answer.

I once read a very wise post on here that said if you want to be able to master any genre of music learn drums first.

He's almost right

I start with house, but end up with tarnce!