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Count_fuzzball · Post by **Count_fuzzball** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:41 am

I'm a noob to even attempting orchestration, and I know this may be a bit of an open ended question but:

When and why do you use certain parts of an orchestra?

Like when to use the 1st violins, 2nd violins or both violins sections and the violas along with the Bassoon and french horn?

TristezaOrange · Post by **TristezaOrange** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:45 am

Check this out, you're gonna love it!

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/for ... y.php?f=77

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:32 am

If you want it full, add more parts. If you want it sparse, have fewer parts.

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:32 pm

Count_fuzzball wrote: When and why do you use certain parts of an orchestra?

Like when to use the 1st violins, 2nd violins or both violins sections and the violas along with the Bassoon and french horn?

It's all a matter of tradition. If you want to sound like a romantic symphony orchestra, listen to lots of works and read along with the score. But if you want to strike your own path, make up your own logic. Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms has a full orchestra, except for no violins. He wanted a darker sound, apparently.

Victor.

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:58 pm

I've studied a lot of orchestration, done my share of score study and have played professionally in orchestras and I am starting to understand the standards or conventionalities of orchestration. This is helpful as a point of departure for my own stuff, but especially for film scoring.

This is something you can't just post a question to a forum about. It takes a directed and concentrated study over a long period and to develop a very solid familiarity with the literature.

The goal, in my way of thinking anyway, is to be able to hear specific orchestration in your head very easily. It is akin to studying a foreign language to the point that you now think and dream in that language.

llatham · Post by **llatham** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:22 pm

Count_fuzzball wrote:I'm a noob to even attempting orchestration, and I know this may be a bit of an open ended question but:

When and why do you use certain parts of an orchestra?

Like when to use the 1st violins, 2nd violins or both violins sections and the violas along with the Bassoon and french horn?

You should buy some Orchestration books.

Samuel Adler's "Orchestration" is the standard - comes with a CD of examples.

Walter Piston also wrote one (called "Orchestration" as well).

There's also Berlioz, updated by Strauss I believe, and Rimsky-Korsakov's (which was also updated by another composer, or his is the update of another composer's book).

For no finer examples, you should go to the MUSIC!

A great aid in the study of orchestration is to look at pieces that have been orchestrated - Ravel orchestrated "Pictures at an Exhibition". If you study Ravel's orchestration of this piano work by Mussorgsky, you'll learn quite a bit.

A final word - don't fall into the trap of "I need to write for orchestra" - there are hundreds of other types of ensemble to write for.

Best,
Steve

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:32 pm

DEFINITELY start with smaller ensembles before even concerning yourself with '1st, 2nd vlns.', whole desks of doubled parts, roles such as that...; which will be so far beyond your reach and so unwieldy as to become very soon an exercise in futility.

RE, enquiry" "when to use the 1st violins, 2nd violins or both violins sections and the violas along with ...": A: because you want that much weight or you don't.

If you are not at the point where you're hearing the real need for such considerations, concretely, you really are putting the cart before the horse.

LauraMichelJarre · Post by **LauraMichelJarre** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:10 pm

I'd suggest Henri Mancini's "Sounds and Scores" - CD and book (with examples).

Some classical training in harmonization (three, four and five part) would assist.

Orchestration?