Infinite Player Questions...

[zedd]

a) The Stereo Grooves samples files include both .RX2 and .wav files. AFAICT the RX2 files are the ones loaded in IP, but are the .wav files used anywhere? Or can I delete them and get back some disk space?

I would suspect that you probably can. Not sure why those would be included in the package, since their presence would effectively double that library size. In the multitrack samples there are only RX2 files.

c) The instrument folder and file names are not in tempo order in IP: e.g. JM_Stereo_62 comes after JM_Stereo_150. Is there any way I can get them in tempo order?

That kind of intelligence would probably have to be programmed in. It probably isn't at the moment.

d) I cannot get the Instrument Volume, Pan and meters to work for ST and MT grooves; what am I missing?

You are right that they do not work for MT grooves. I believe Kontakt Player requires that they be sitting there for each instrument, even though the outputs have all been routed to the faders at the bottom. This is one of the most annoying parts of the player, and the thing I most hope may be remedied with the new version of Kontakt Player. This wastes space, and has you trying to tweek knobs or look for LED activity from dead GUI components. It is the same thing with MT kits, although for ST kits you will find that the LED meters (and maybe the volume and pan) do work.

I am guessing that this is probably one of the main reasons why EastWest decided to cut themselves off from Kontakt Player and build their own GUI. If Native Instruments is going to force its partner developers to include visual components and knobs that don't actually have a purpose, then that significantly degrades the overall impression made by the player, and reduces its effectiveness.

e) looking at the Danny Gottleib Stereo Kit:
When I change the mode to GM
-- the keyboard still shows the I-MAP mapping

You might want to try changing the keyboard mapping using the B-1 key. For multitrack kits this will toggle all kit pieces from one mode to the other. Perhaps it may bring about the more of the behavioral changes you were expecting.

It looks like we had different strategies for downloading the Drum Masters Gold content. I have downloaded all the MT content, but have not yet started on the ST downloads. You, instead, did the opposite!

[ynot]

the individual instrument levels & pans do absolutely nothing in the full version of Kontakt for these kits as well,so it's not just becuase of the player.

[zedd]

the individual instrument levels & pans do absolutely nothing in the full version of Kontakt for these kits as well,so it's not just becuase of the player.

Yeah... Allen told me something along the lines of this being some kind of a Kontakt restriction, whereby if the outputs are redirected to a different location (as in our mixing channel strip down below), that they cannot be mirrored in the instruments themselves. I assumed that this was just a limitation of the player... but maybe it goes beyond that. I am not familiar with the full version of Kontakt, and I don't even know if it has a similar mixing channel strip.

It would seem that the kit routings/output diversions are activited, whether you load the kits in the player or the full version of Kontakt.

[ynot]

the individual instrument levels & pans do absolutely nothing in the full version of Kontakt for these kits as well,so it's not just becuase of the player.

Yeah... Allen told me something along the lines of this being some kind of a Kontakt restriction, whereby if the outputs are redirected to a different location (as in our mixing channel strip down below), that they cannot be mirrored in the instruments themselves. I assumed that this was just a limitation of the player... but maybe it goes beyond that. I am not familiar with the full version of Kontakt, and I don't even know if it has a similar mixing channel strip.

It would seem that the kit routings/output diversions are activited, whether you load the kits in the player or the full version of Kontakt.

yeah,i really wish they were functional.if we had use of that level as a master level for each kit piece it would be so much faster/easier to set levels.the way it is,if you want to turn down one kit piece you have to turn it down on its channel,then the OH,then both RM1 & 2, then Misc1 & 2,then SNRB etc.

[Squids]

Wow, this is going to take me a bit of time to catch up. Thanks for your patience.

Okay, so after some investigation the inconvenience of the kit pieces of a multi all loading in omni can be solved with an update where we simply save them back assigned to a midi channel because that seems to be a better way to do it... we'll probably do it default to midi channel 1 (although if you want to change it to another midi channel then it is unfortunately something I think you'll have to do for each instrument in the multi but at least it will be faster to work with the grooves on a separate midi channel if we do this by default). You can of course just load the multis, change the midi channel of each part (to whatever you want) and save them back yourself to your liking, not having to wait for the update.

The update will also have something ELSE we're calling "Performance Groove Maps" which are the grooves you have there but split up into 1-2 octave groups mapped starting at C6 going up so they can be played ALONG SIDE the kit (on the SAME midi channel at that point). I personally prefer THIS anyway (and the other "menu" maps are more just to audition a whole bunch of them then but this "Performance" map would be the main "go to" ones). So, for me this is a significant update to the patches that will make a big difference in convenience in how the kits work with the grooves. Also, this video demonstration I want to do is waiting on THAT to be completed so I can demonstrate it with THAT as opposed to any potentially inferior way of doing it. We should be done with the update by the end of next week I hope. It's a lot of work actually but we're crankin'. I also want to do some alternate preset mixes.... plus midi files are still coming. Remember this is a living breathing ongoing "infinite" thing here. You can expect more free enhancement udpates with this than anything we've done before. It's a major flagship focus for us.

So... you've discovered the positional toms eh? This is an awesome feature of the product for iMap. Basically there are 6 slots for a tom P1-P6 (position 1-6) and each slot has three articulations of the tom (different positions of where the tom is hit). Since each tom in the set is a separate instrument you can configure your own kits using any combination of toms from the entire Infinite series - from Drum Masters, from other Studio ProFiles titles... have fun! You can even load the SAME tom 6 times into each P1, P2, P3 slot and then pitch each one differently and create your own 6 tom set out of ONE tom or any other combination... you could take a 2 tom set and make it 4 toms, a 3 tom set and make it 5, you can mix and match even within the tom set different brands... or perhaps put some Roto Toms (if you have Drum Masters Platinum) or Timbale Toms mixed in with some rack toms or maybe make a tom set of just floor toms... you can go nuts with this feature! Yes, you just simply hit the "X" on the instruments you don't want from a loaded multi and then go into the instruments folder and start loading in what you DO want! It's really simple and yes yes yes I know, the video, the video!!!!! That's all part of it. You guys are the FIRST to have this. It's still not even in the stores yet. So, there's that discovery element involved which in some ways is probably fun but in other ways frustrating that you don't have everything as neatly expressed (we do have to update the manual big time - and the videos will help). It took us so long just to MAKE Drum Masters but we still have work to do for explaining the depth of all you can do with it... quite immense.

Regarding the GM map display, this at the moment is an accepted compromise in order for this remapping script to work. I am not sure we can fix that. Remember we are a bit at the mercy of what Kontakt can do or can't do and even some things - like limitations in scripts such as number of knobs etc. - we often get around. The ability to take the iMap and do a remap GM with it (is insignificant next to the power of the force? no!) is one we didn't think we could do but then we found a way... only there's that display overlap on the keyboard. I think we'll have to live with that until either we find a way in the script to get rid of it or if some scripting guru wants to offer some advice because we've kind of given up on that for the moment and are working on other cool things that will make a difference in performance and sound (that doesn't affect the sound or performance).

Okay... takes breath, there are some other things I've skimmed here in this thread that I didn't know the immediate answer to so I will get back on those things. I hope I've helped a bit and always a big thank you to our users who help each other. I know that's the spirit of KVR - to be a resource for learning about these software tools. But, when we see it happen about our products we're personally moved by it and of course we really appreciate the interest and the help. So cheers.

[DarkStar]

the individual instrument levels & pans do absolutely nothing in the full version of Kontakt for these kits as well,so it's not just because of the player.

Yeah... Allen told me something along the lines of this being some kind of a Kontakt restriction, whereby if the outputs are redirected to a different location (as in our mixing channel strip down below), that they cannot be mirrored in the instruments themselves.

I beg to differ, In K3 you can reroute (non-IP) instruments to different outputs and still use the Instrument controls, so perhaps this could be looked at in IP later too:


Big pic:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3622 ... ntrols.png

Note the effect of the Instrument Pan controls on the meters in the instruments, in the Mixer and outside in the host's mixer.

PS No Mute or Solo buttons in the Kontakt Mixer either .

[Squids]

I'd like to see improvements in the Kontakt mixer too. So let's all bug NI to include mute and solo plus CC control of the faders!

[ynot]

the individual instrument levels & pans do absolutely nothing in the full version of Kontakt for these kits as well,so it's not just because of the player.

Yeah... Allen told me something along the lines of this being some kind of a Kontakt restriction, whereby if the outputs are redirected to a different location (as in our mixing channel strip down below), that they cannot be mirrored in the instruments themselves.

I beg to differ, In K3 you can reroute (non-IP) instruments to different outputs and still use the Instrument controls, so perhaps this could be looked at in IP later too:


Big pic:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3622 ... ntrols.png

Note the effect of the Instrument Pan controls on the meters in the instruments, in the Mixer and outside in the host's mixer.

PS No Mute or Solo buttons in the Kontakt Mixer either .

exactly,...reread my post,i said "the individual instrument levels & pans do absolutely nothing in the full version of Kontakt FOR THESE KITS as well,so it's not just because of the player".that was my whole point,normally those levels DO work,but they DO NOT with these kits.

[ynot]

ok,now,ITS MY TURN

i havnt been able to get the aux channels to work w/ these kits either.normally in Kontakt & other Kontakt Player libraries they work fine,so im assuming this is another output limitation due to all the routing w/ all these kits.it would be nice if the aux channels did work.then we could save custom patches w/ effects (in the aux),so it would be more of a "self contained" patch as opposed to doing that kinda stuff only in your host.the benifit would be quick loading of your preset kits to your daw without having to load your effects seperately each time.also since Kontakt Player has a metronome,in standalone it would be great to load pre mixed kits for just practicing.

[Squids]

I'd like to see improvements in the Kontakt mixer too. So let's all bug NI to include mute and solo plus CC control of the faders!

For example, in this preliminary video (one of my first attempts to make the vids... I just don't like the audio being off the camera like that but I was having trouble syncing everything direct... pita but I'll get it right soon and be a little Squids-TV-Videomakingmachine as always promised) anyway in the video you can see I am using a Tascam midi controller for each discrete mic channel. You may be wondering "How did he do that?" because it is pretty darn convenient and cool to have that mapped like that. Well, you can do it by assigning the individual outputs of Kontakt Player to your DAW and conrol your DAW! It's not hard to do and there should be info in the manual how to do it but if not we've got a document coming that will give tips. Doing it in ProTools (which I have here) is a little tricky because of some weird limitation of ProTools (you have to do this odd bussing of the first channel). But if anyone has Infinite Player with multitrack kits and is using ProTools I have a template song file you can load that will automatically have it all routed. We may eventually just make that available as download extra but it needs to be tested first to be sure it works well for others because we don't want to add to confusion we only want to help with shortcuts and clarifications.

Here's the video where you can see what I'm talking about:

Now, my point above was that it would be NICE if Kontakt Player's output mixer (which was probably originally meant mainly just for a little trimming before being sent out the individual outs) could receive the midi CC messages DIRECTLY so you could assign whatever midi controller's CCs right to those no matter what DAW you were using or even in Stand Alone. I have and will continue to ask for this feature but strength in numbers. If you want it too then be vocal about it and the squeaky wheel gets the oil. They have a forum and probably some kind of suggestion box on their site I would imagine... not sure but the more people ask for it the more likely it will be added. The same for the mute and solo in that section. It's a cool under-rated feature of the program and you really start to see its potential when you have something like multi-track drums being used like we're doing and Steve Slate (who we're going to carry his stuff soon on esoundz - possibly including exclusive iMap versions - more news coming on that) and others.

[Squids]

ok,now,ITS MY TURN

i havnt been able to get the aux channels to work w/ these kits either.normally in Kontakt & other Kontakt Player libraries they work fine,so im assuming this is another output limitation due to all the routing w/ all these kits.it would be nice if the aux channels did work.then we could save custom patches w/ effects (in the aux),so it would be more of a "self contained" patch as opposed to doing that kinda stuff only in your host.the benifit would be quick loading of your preset kits to your daw without having to load your effects seperately each time.also since Kontakt Player has a metronome,in standalone it would be great to load pre mixed kits for just practicing.

I agree and especially in the upcoming KP 3.X (free update for all IP users btw from NI) there will be more effects to be able to use as well. So nice to have that option. That said, the high quality of the material in Infinite Player is ideally meant for high quality effects like T-RackS 3 Deluxe, Waves, UAD etc - matching caliber of modeled outboard gear to go along with modeled sessions you might put it. That's the main intention and why everything has discrete outputs. But... for convenience I am always for mixing inside the box. IMO that is one thing SampleTank has over everything is a great internal mixing system and wait until you see what's coming next for SampleTank... I can't say but man I think it's going to be GOOD! I love IK effects modeling. But our sounds for ST are a different design philosophy and we don't do these kinds of 1-5 gigabyte drum kits in that format, they are best suited for a streaming sampler such as Kontakt which is best suited for processing outside of the plug-in IMO. But each person is different and we try to accommodate everyone!

I think the auxes may need the sends from the script/instruments themselves and this IS coming in the second wave update as well as more with insert effects in the GUI and other cool stuff. The Ken Scott Collection is coming in April and that has some nice features that will migrate over to Drum Masters as well. It's good that we're doing a LOT of drum products like this. I am working now with a guy who is a LEGEND and has recorded some of the best sounding records (Besides Ken Scott and Hugh Padgham, this person is someone I've never mentioned and I will try to keep it a secret until its announced! For once...). This is just going to get better and better. It will be unavoidable - too good not to have. That's my goal.