Albino vs Gladiator vs Surge vs Zebra

[PaulSC]

That is a close enough emulation that the difference is academic.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm hoping Howard comes back and says his link is actually the mp3 from the Juno site just shortened. Nothing like the ol' placebo effect.

It's clearly missing a touch of oscillator instability

Oscillator instablity ? In a Juno 106 ? You're joking ?

Wouldn't you agree there's a lot of pitch instability in the original sound example (whether or not it's typical of the Juno 106 in general)?

[david.beholder]

That to me sounds like a softsynth emulation of an analogue synth.

Why wouldn't it? That is what it is. Is that a bad thing?

I think that's the point. No bad/good attached at all. It's synths -- they all bad (devil's creatures, of course ).

Any VA could emulate j-106 because it has basic architecture. It doesn't mean they 'sound like or close to 106'.

[Echo Voodoo]

Please read whole thing, it's different rather than your story.

I've read the whole thread. I just went back and re-read your comments leading up to the one I replied to, also. Doesn't change my question.

S1 sample -- why here should be one?

It's only important if you wanted to back up your statement that it sounded "analogue", as compared to the Zebra effort. If you don't care to back up your statement, it doesn't matter.

[pdxindy]

Sylenth does not sound 'analogue' any more than Zebra does. Sylenth may have a certain sound you happen to like, but it does not sound 'analogue'. You are just using that word (rather arbitrarily) to mean a certain sound of Sylenth you like.

Of course there's no definition of 'analogue'.

But, as I said before I have juno 106. In basic osc + subosc + cutoff + res situation S1 was closer to 106 rather than Z. Sound of 106 is what I call 'analogue'.

Then let's hear your audio from Sylenth that sounds closer to the Juno example than Howards.

[Howard]

Wouldn't you agree there's a lot of pitch instability in the original sound example (whether or not it's typical of the Juno 106 in general)?

I wouldn't call that instability - as far as I could tell it was slow LFO pitch modulation (though I suppose it could have conceivably been the chorus). I added some in that "clone", but obviously not enough

[bmanic]

Hmm.. I didn't find the two examples even remotely close to each other, neither tonally nor "resolution" wise. The juno "buzz", even though the sweep is a bit stepped, is much smoother to my ears than the Zebra example Howard did. And surprise surprise, that example demonstrates exactly what I don't like about Zebras sound. It's hard and very precise without any dirt. I love dirt. Zebra is like the polar opposite of the demos I've heard from synth squad. Actually, Zebra, FabFilter and SynthSquad could form a sort of circle going from Hard (Zebra) -> Punchy but still smooth (Synth Suqad) -> Ridiculously soft and buzzy (Twin). That's how my ears hear it at least.

None of this means one is better than the other but this thread demonstrates, as always, how differently we perceive differences. One man's "nearly identical" is another man's "huge difference!".

Oh, and the old "well the differences get buried in the mix" does not always apply because if you want that liquid Korg MS-20 bass/buzz/mayhem + kick + hats, aka Mr. Oizo, then you really do need the real thing. It is virtually impossible to get that smoothness, not to mention the crazy audio rate modulations, with the Korg VSTi. Sometimes the last 10% of the sound count a lot and can actually "make" the tune.

Cheers!
bManic

[justin3am]

Any VA could emulate j-106 because it has basic architecture. It doesn't mean they 'sound like or close to 106'.

My question is, what is the benefit of sounding like or close to the Juno 106? I don't see the logic in judging a synth by comparing it to another synth, especially if you are making that comparison via their ability to sound like yet another synth. I tend to judge a synth by it's own merits. In my opinion these comparisons say more about the sound designer than the synth.

Never been too impressed with Sylenth1, not that it's a bad synth, it's just not for me. It simply doesn't provide the features I need to make sounds that are interesting to me. I'm sure that you have valid reasons for not liking the sound of Zebra but your opinion does not reflect an inherent quality of the synth (if there is such a thing). Same goes for my opinion of Sylenth1 or whatever.

[bmanic]

Any VA could emulate j-106 because it has basic architecture. It doesn't mean they 'sound like or close to 106'.

My question is, what is the benefit of sounding like or close to the Juno 106? I don't see the logic in judging a synth by comparing it to another synth, especially if you are making that comparison via their ability to sound like yet another synth. I tend to judge a synth by it's own merits. In my opinion these comparisons say more about the sound designer than the synth.

I agree but Howard specifically stated that Zebra can emulate any Juno 106 sound, which is in my opinion complete and utter bull crap, depending of course on what "emulate" means. If "yeah it's playing the same notes" is the only criteria then sure..

Cheers!
bManic

[justin3am]

I agree but Howard specifically stated that Zebra can emulate any Juno 106 sound, which is in my opinion complete and utter bull crap, depending of course on what "emulate" means. If "yeah it's playing the same notes" is the only criteria then sure..

Cheers!
bManic

I agree with you, I could have just as easily quoted Howard to make my point (or lack there of). I think your description of Zebra is accurate (to a certain extent) and those characteristics are what I love about it. I also love that it's flexible enough that those characteristics aren't inherent to it's sound; that is just something it does well. You mention Twin and I feel that is another synth that isn't limited to it's "typical" sound (for lack of a better word), it just takes some work to expose all of it's potential.

The most important characteristic in a synth, for me, is that I be able to coax sounds I find interesting (or fitting for my current project) from it. From this perspective, the synth isn't as important as my ability to use it.

[david.beholder]

Please read whole thing, it's different rather than your story.

I've read the whole thread. I just went back and re-read your comments leading up to the one I replied to, also. Doesn't change my question.

S1 sample -- why here should be one?

It's only important if you wanted to back up your statement that it sounded "analogue", as compared to the Zebra effort. If you don't care to back up your statement, it doesn't matter.

Ok ok mr. Flame . Do you agree thread has started before Howard? And all the Z People vs The world is started after:

Well, my congratulations with Zebra. It's amazing synth with nice ui (all the big squares) and has it's own sound character.

Although it doesn't sound analogue (or i couldn't get it sound this way), like Surge or Sylenth1.

This is my original statement. And thanks to Howard for helping me with getting proof.

The only question in your post is "Really" I already answered "Yes"!

[Echoes in the Attic]

And surprise surprise, that example demonstrates exactly what I don't like about Zebras sound. It's hard and very precise without any dirt. I love dirt. Zebra is like the polar opposite of the demos I've heard from synth squad. Actually, Zebra, FabFilter and SynthSquad could form a sort of circle going from Hard (Zebra) -> Punchy but still smooth (Synth Suqad) -> Ridiculously soft and buzzy (Twin). That's how my ears hear it at least.

I agree completely with what you're saying. I've always been surprised by people who claim that Zebra can emulate analog synths, and that it has a phat analog character. Zebra is one of my favorite synths. I love the sound, and I love the architecture and I think it's a joy to program. When people ask what is one synth they should get if they can only get one. I'll usually say Zebra because it's so versatile. But I don't find it even remotely analogish.

bmanic, it seems we are in the minority, but I know what you're saying about those dirty warm fuzzy sounds. To me, that side of VA = Sylenth1, some Arturia synths (Minimoog V/Modular V), GForce Oddity, and (from the sound of the demos) the DCam stuff probably. But not much else.

[david.beholder]

My question is, what is the benefit of sounding like or close to the Juno 106?

Benefit? Hmm I'm enjoying to play others could enjoy to listen.

[Howard]

And surprise surprise, that example demonstrates exactly what I don't like about Zebras sound. It's hard and very precise without any dirt. I love dirt. etc..

I've always been surprised by people who claim that Zebra can emulate analog synths, and that it has a phat analog character...I don't find it even remotely analogish. bmanic, it seems we are in the minority etc..

I don't think I've ever made claims about Zebra's character, and maybe it's about time I did. Here goes: Zebra2 has the least character of all synths I've ever known. That's one major reason why I think it's the king of soft modulars - you can take it anywhere.

[Echo Voodoo]

Ok ok mr. Flame . Do you agree thread has started before Howard? And all the Z People vs The world is started after:

Well, my congratulations with Zebra. It's amazing synth with nice ui (all the big squares) and has it's own sound character.

Although it doesn't sound analogue (or i couldn't get it sound this way), like Surge or Sylenth1.

This is my original statement. And thanks to Howard for helping me with getting proof.

The only question in your post is "Really" I already answered "Yes"!

You said Surge and Sylenth1 sounded analogue, and Zebra didn't. You said Howard's example 'proved' this. What I still don't get (and you haven't answered) is how a quick attempt by one person to emulate a particular sound represents proof of your statement. Especially since nobody has provided an example of Surge or Sylenth1 emulating that sound in a more 'analogue' way.

That's all I was wondering. If you consider that flaming, feel free to ignore it.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I've always been surprised by people who claim that Zebra can emulate analog synths, and that it has a phat analog character...I don't find it even remotely analogish. bmanic, it seems we are in the minority etc..

I don't think I've ever made claims about Zebra's character, and maybe it's about time I did. Here goes: Zebra2 has the least character of all synths I've ever known. That's one major reason why I think it's the king of soft modulars - you can take it anywhere.

I agree somewhat. I still think it has a pretty digital character no matter where you take it. But just to clarify, I wasn't inferring that you made any claims on Zebra's sound character. I've just heard that a lot elsewhere. And also, I think you did a pretty spot on emulation of that juno sound. I wold also say there is nothing very special about that juno sound at all. Zebra can certainly emulate all of those run of the mill boring sounds easily. And of course much more that no other synth can do. I just don't think it can do some of the warm fuzzy dirty synths as well as the previous ones I mentioned.

I've actually been meaning to make a little patch bank for Zebra of the just the kind of analog sounds that I don't think it does too well, just for fun. Sometimes I surprise myself with Zebra.