KVR Audio

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:41 am

Hello guys, sorry to add to the huge number of A vs B threads, but I could use some advice.

I produce electronic music, mostly trance / house / tech and am finally ditching Reason as part of my environment.

I am using Cubase 4 and will upgrade to 5 in the near future. Here are the current synths I own:

- Access Virus TI (use on everything)
- u-he Zebra2 (use on everything)
- HalionOne rompler in Cubase 4 (brilliant soundsets there)
- Virsyn Cubase 4 synths (don't use these much personally, maybe I should give them another go)
- Waldorf Edition LE (don't use these much either)

I am planning to buy...

- NI Massive

When moving to Cubase 5, I will have a good drum sampler built in, but I think I am in need of a really good ROMpler.

The main sounds I'm after are:

- Piano
- Choir
- Abstract soundscapes / deep pads
- Orchestral Strings
- Electric pianos (Rhodes .etc)

I have heard so much positive feedback about Nexus from producers I work with, but am personally interested in Omnisphere too.

What is your recommendation? Please tell me a bit about how useful you find either of the synths in production if you can.

Thanks so much!

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:51 am

I would say Omnisphere. It contains more sounds, is MUCH more tweakable, and has all the sounds you mentioned in some form or another. When it comes to choirs and soundscapes/pads, Omnisphere is king. Maybe not the electric pianos or acoustic pianos as much(although there are some piano sounds), but there are just so many sounds inside that it's crazy and you'll not likely explore them all any time soon.

Nexus is known for good trance stuff, but Omnisphere just released an update with over 2000 new free patches that contains a LOT of that type of sound. And since it offers a full featured synth that you can use any of the thousands of soundsources as the oscillator for, the sounds are limitless almost. Add the live modes and stack modes, groove lock(to any MIDI groove) for the great arp included, and the fact that the oscillators can be multiplied for extremely fat sounds, among other things. It's just an absolute BEAST. Though it will likely take more CPU than Nexus will, I think it's worth it if you have at least a semi-decent computer(a year or so old is fine, even older depending on specs- you just won't get full eight part gigantic sounds).

I really think you'll get more value in the long run out of Omnisphere. I really don't even see how Nexus can compete overall, despite apparently having some fantastic sounds.

Also, Nexus uses a dongle, in case that matters. I don't mind dongles(I have and use three of them), but it does matter to some. That being said, I believe it uses the Syncrosoft dongle, so you already have one of those. So in this case, it probably doesn't matter.

Brent

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:57 am

koolkeys wrote:I would say Omnisphere. It contains more sounds, is MUCH more tweakable, and has all the sounds you mentioned. Maybe not the electric pianos, I don't remember.

Nexus is known for good trance stuff, but Omnisphere just released an update with over 2000 new free patches that contains a LOT of that type of sound. And since it offers a full featured synth that you can use any of the thousands of soundsources as the oscillator for, the sounds are limitless almost. Add the live modes and stack modes, groove lock(to any MIDI groove) for the great arp included, and the fact that the oscillators can be multiplied for extremely fat sounds, among other things. It's just an absolute BEAST. Though it will likely take more CPU than Nexus will, I think it's worth it if you have at least a semi-decent computer(a year or so old is fine, even older depending on specs- you just won't get full eight part gigantic sounds).

I really think you'll get more value in the long run out of Omnisphere. I really don't even see how Nexus can compete overall, despite apparently having some fantastic sounds.

Also, Nexus uses a dongle, in case that matters. I don't mind dongles(I have and use three of them), but it does matter to some. That being said, I believe it uses the Syncrosoft dongle, so you already have one of those. So in this case, it probably doesn't matter.

Brent

Thanks Brent! Really appreciate your feedback. The dongle isn't really a concern if it's Syncrosoft since as you mentioned, I already have one for Cubase. I will never own an iLok though

If I have missed any other good options (e.g. Kontakt or something), please let me know.

Cheers

yellowfever · Post by **yellowfever** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:24 am

I thought there are some good choir sounds in the Cubase synths? Halion 1 and Prologue.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:44 am

yellowfever wrote:I thought there are some good choir sounds in the Cubase synths? Halion 1 and Prologue.

HalionOne has only 2 - 3 choir sounds which are nice, but not really enough to satisfy my needs. I will check out the Prologue synth again too, thx.

I'm really looking for very intense orchestral choirs, more the style used in films.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:02 am

soundpalace wrote:
yellowfever wrote:I thought there are some good choir sounds in the Cubase synths? Halion 1 and Prologue.
HalionOne has only 2 - 3 choir sounds which are nice, but not really enough to satisfy my needs. I will check out the Prologue synth again too, thx.

I'm really looking for very intense orchestral choirs, more the style used in films.

Omnisphere will have more of that. Although if you want a full library of choirs, there isn't anything better than Symphonic Choirs from East West. It requires an iLok though, I believe.

I don't believe there are any libraries which are as deep.

That being said, the choirs in Omnisphere are pretty sweet. And there are a lot of patches with them.

Brent

AdeVanEx · Post by **AdeVanEx** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:14 am

Hi
I was is this position, deciding which to buy out of the 2.
As you say you are into Trance then there can only be one choice and that is Nexus2. Why?
Because this thing was built for it, and when you use the arp and trancegate together you can get all that movement you want with ease!
There is nothing easier to use and nothing so immediate.
The sound quality is much much better than I imagined it would be and Nexus2 is so much more flexible and does so much more then some on here would give it credit for.
I also play a bit of piano and was impressed with what's been sampled, and this thing is great for ballads and atmospherics.
Ok, some would say the added reverb makes all the difference but then again reFx have been forward enough to add a fantastic reverb in the first place!
I definately want to purchase Omnisphere and I am sure it would outdo Nexus in terms of synth capabilities and size of library etc but if you are into dance/trance then you will not be disappointed in Nexus2.
I am NOT saying one is better than the other but I am saying for Trance get Nexus first.
Regards
Ade

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:31 am

There is an argument that you dont need either because of the synths you already have,

but

that's not what you asked soooo.......

I would forget Massive personally, I had it for a while and couldn't find anything about it that made me want to use it in a dance environment. At least try the demo at depth if you haven't already done so.

For Piano, choir strings and EP why not look at Kontakt 3? There are Gigabytes of samples in there covering all those bases.

Nexus 2 is ALL about trance as has been stated and the quality of the sounds is second to none. I love the sound of the thing but question the cost of the basic Rompler. I can understand paying for the well designed soundsets but a fully expanded Nexus is costing the same a full on Virus hardware synth? Ermmm.

Can't comment on Omnisphere as I have no interest in it, but surely you'll never use the majority of what it offers? That of course is up to you to decide

Others to look at that I use heavily in dance/trance :-

Sylenth1
Applied Acoustics Ultra Analog (very underrated and gorgous sounding)
Soon to be released - FxPansion D-Cam (my choice would be this over Nexus/Omnisphere)

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:12 pm

I have Nexus2 and Omnisphere. I also produce a lot of dance (prog house, trance) and chillout music, as well as electronica-influenced pop. One thing I would clarify is that, while Nexus is a rompler, Omnisphere is more like a supersynth that is also a rompler. The difference is, you can program your own sounds in Omnisphere, just like any soft synth. And, yes, Omnisphere will do trance as well, if not better, than any synth on the market, but the presets are not as trance-oriented as those from Nexus, Sylenth1, Vanguard, etc. As far as Nexus is concerned, you can edit the sounds in Nexus a lot more than people typically give it credit for. In fact, I often edit the presets beyond recognition using only the filter settings, EQ, effects, and layers.

The last, but probably most important consideration, is price. Omnisphere is definitely expensive, but it's a one-time cost and Spectrasonics goes well beyond their expectations when they provide free upgrades. The recent 2000 extra patches is proof of that, as is the recent 1.7 upgrade for Stylus RMX. But, Nexus2 can be MUCH more expensive than Omnisphere when you start adding the costs of the expansions. And, believe me, those expansions are like crack once you get hooked on Nexus. You can easily find yourself shelling out a few hundred bucks every few months for new expansions.

So, my advice would be to go with Omnisphere, particularly if you're comfortable programming your own sounds (and, if not, it's a great synth to learn on). But, if you just want a lot of quality pre-made patches and don't want to fuss with rolling your own (nothing wrong with that, IMO), then Nexus2 can't be beat.

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:20 pm

as you're mainly doing trance, though not a rompler, but ... you should try helix definately:

www.audjoo.com

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:35 pm

tehlord wrote: I would forget Massive personally, I had it for a while and couldn't find anything about it that made me want to use it in a dance environment. At least try the demo at depth if you haven't already done so.

For Piano, choir strings and EP why not look at Kontakt 3? There are Gigabytes of samples in there covering all those bases.

Nexus 2 is ALL about trance as has been stated and the quality of the sounds is second to none. I love the sound of the thing but question the cost of the basic Rompler. I can understand paying for the well designed soundsets but a fully expanded Nexus is costing the same a full on Virus hardware synth? Ermmm.

Can't comment on Omnisphere as I have no interest in it, but surely you'll never use the majority of what it offers? That of course is up to you to decide

Others to look at that I use heavily in dance/trance :-

Sylenth1
Applied Acoustics Ultra Analog (very underrated and gorgous sounding)
Soon to be released - FxPansion D-Cam (my choice would be this over Nexus/Omnisphere)

Thanks for your help, I actually really really love Massive as do all producers I am working with, so I'm a little surprised you don't dig it. Even though I produce trance, I am really into sound design that moves away from the usual supersaw, although it definitely has its place. I demoed Sylenth1 for such a long time and simply dislike its limitations. It sounds great, don't get me wrong, but it's really a very basic synth, basic waveforms with unison, a filter and effects. Massive is so much deeper than this, which is really what I'm after.

cryophonik wrote:I have Nexus2 and Omnisphere. I also produce a lot of dance (prog house, trance) and chillout music, as well as electronica-influenced pop. One thing I would clarify is that, while Nexus is a rompler, Omnisphere is more like a supersynth that is also a rompler. The difference is, you can program your own sounds in Omnisphere, just like any soft synth. And, yes, Omnisphere will do trance as well, if not better, than any synth on the market, but the presets are not as trance-oriented as those from Nexus, Sylenth1, Vanguard, etc. As far as Nexus is concerned, you can edit the sounds in Nexus a lot more than people typically give it credit for. In fact, I often edit the presets beyond recognition using only the filter settings, EQ, effects, and layers.

The last, but probably most important consideration, is price. Omnisphere is definitely expensive, but it's a one-time cost and Spectrasonics goes well beyond their expectations when they provide free upgrades. The recent 2000 extra patches is proof of that, as is the recent 1.7 upgrade for Stylus RMX. But, Nexus2 can be MUCH more expensive than Omnisphere when you start adding the costs of the expansions. And, believe me, those expansions are like crack once you get hooked on Nexus. You can easily find yourself shelling out a few hundred bucks every few months for new expansions.

So, my advice would be to go with Omnisphere, particularly if you're comfortable programming your own sounds (and, if not, it's a great synth to learn on). But, if you just want a lot of quality pre-made patches and don't want to fuss with rolling your own (nothing wrong with that, IMO), then Nexus2 can't be beat.

Thanks so much for your thoughts, this is the main thing I've been thinking about too. Price-wise, I'm very worried Nexus will get out of control, and it really does feel overpriced, though I will demo it tonight to decide if it's what I'm after. Most producers I work with recommend Nexus, and most do own all expansions. It's really scary to think I would have to spend as much on a rompler plugin as I did on my Virus TI, which already was way too expensive

P.S.: Nice hardware you got there!

brok landers wrote:as you're mainly doing trance, though not a rompler, but ... you should try helix definately:

www.audjoo.com

Thanks, although I am pretty well covered on the synth side, I am really after a rompler.

Thanks again guys!

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:32 am

...if it's a decision between Omnisphere and Nexus it'll be definitely Omnisphere then. It's more versatile and a lot more value for money in comparison to Nexus. You can't do much tweaking with Nexus and it's way overpriced with its expansion scheme (also there are a lot of people who say its developer is really crazy).

But if you're really into deep programming, modulating and tweaking there's nothing which beats Kontakt. It costs about the same as Omnisphere and it has a world class sample library including "real" instruments like strings, pianos and epianos as well as synth and rompler sounds. I mention Kontakt because I know that Omnisphere's library has a lot of cool and weird sounds but I'm not sure about the real instruments. Also Omnisphere is a closed format and you will only be able to use Spectrasonic expansions for it, you can't edit it like you could edit instruments in Kontakt (not to mention the Kontakt scripts with additional sound manipulation or sequencing features) and you can't import your own sounds (at least of what I know about Omnisphere). With Kontakt you can use your own sounds, you can import various sample formats and you can buy libraries from countless sound designers. For instance, I think these libraries are on par with the sound quality of Omnisphere:

http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... experience

http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... ctions&L=1 (using the Kontakt engine mostly or you can use it with the free Kore Player)

http://www.soniccouture.com/pages/abstrakt.php

...you can also buy very good and cheap libraries for Kontakt like this one (since you mentioned choir sounds):

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/angelicinfo.php

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/angelic2info.php

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/avp3info.php

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/avp4info.php

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/pro ... DLE&cat=28

...or you could buy a sound library using the Kontakt Player and upgrade to the full version of Kontakt later. Vir2 and SampleLogic offer some very good libraries. The Kontakt Player offers the same editing possibilities like the full version, but you're a limited to the featured sounds and can't import your own. Of course, you can load all Kontakt Player libraries into Kontakt...

http://www.samplelogic.com/synergy.html

http://www.samplelogic.com/air.html

http://www.samplelogic.com/elements.html

http://www.vir2.com/4DCGI/vir2/products ... .html?1289

http://www.vir2.com/4DCGI/vir2/products ... .html?1198

I admit, there are a lot more options you'd have to consider with the Kontakt route than just buying Omnisphere and in the end you might spend more money on Kontakt based products than on Omnisphere, but you'd have a more comprehensive sound platform. Anyway, I think this comparison definitely rules out Nexus.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:41 am

loachm wrote:...if it's a decision between Omnisphere and Nexus it'll be definitely Omnisphere then. It's more versatile and a lot more value for money in comparison to Nexus. You can't do much tweaking with Nexus and it's way overpriced with its expansion scheme (also there are a lot of people who say its developer is really crazy).

But if you're really into deep programming, modulating and tweaking there's nothing which beats Kontakt. It costs about the same as Omnisphere and it has a world class sample library including "real" instruments like strings, pianos and epianos as well as synth and rompler sounds. I mention Kontakt because I know that Omnisphere's library has a lot of cool and weird sounds but I'm not sure about the real instruments. Also Omnisphere is a closed format and you will only be able to use Spectrasonic expansions for it, you can't edit it like you could edit instruments in Kontakt (not to mention the Kontakt scripts with additional sound manipulation or sequencing features) and you can't import your own sounds (at least of what I know about Omnisphere). With Kontakt you can use your own sounds, you can import various sample formats and you can buy libraries from countless sound designers. For instance, I think these libraries are on par with the sound quality of Omnisphere:

http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... experience

http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... ctions&L=1 (using the Kontakt engine mostly or you can use it with the free Kore Player)

http://www.soniccouture.com/pages/abstrakt.php

...you can also buy very good and cheap libraries for Kontakt like this one (since you mentioned choir sounds):

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/angelicinfo.php

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/angelic2info.php

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/avp3info.php

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/avp4info.php

http://www.store.precisionsound.net/pro ... DLE&cat=28

...or you could buy a sound library using the Kontakt Player and upgrade to the full version of Kontakt later. Vir2 and SampleLogic offer some very good libraries. The Kontakt Player offers the same editing possibilities like the full version, but you're a limited to the featured sounds and can't import your own. Of course, you can load all Kontakt Player libraries into Kontakt...

http://www.samplelogic.com/synergy.html

http://www.samplelogic.com/air.html

http://www.samplelogic.com/elements.html

http://www.vir2.com/4DCGI/vir2/products ... .html?1289

http://www.vir2.com/4DCGI/vir2/products ... .html?1198

I admit, there are a lot more options you'd have to consider with the Kontakt route than just buying Omnisphere and in the end you might spend more money on Kontakt based products than on Omnisphere, but you'd have a more comprehensive sound platform. Anyway, I think this comparison definitely rules out Nexus.

Thank you so much for your detailed post, this really does help a lot.

I downloaded the demo of Nexus last night and have been playing with it for the last hour. Honestly, I really am not a fan personally.

- Most sounds will need EQ, they are quite dull sounding in the treble range.
- Most sounds are synth based which I would rather produce on the synths I own myself.
- Almost all sounds are buried under effects, and not in a practical way either, I would never use reverb the way they have on bass sounds.
- There are hardly any good choir / string sounds
- A lot of sounds have at least 2 octaves mixed in which I dislike.

I am definitely going to check out these Kontakt libraries and make a decision. I do appreciate how good and expandable Kontakt is, so it's certainly a viable option.

Thanks again!

John-E34 · Post by **John-E34** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:13 am

Kontakt... cannot say how good it is yet, still waiting for the postie to arrive, I also looked at the other big players, but with so much quality stuff being released for Kontakt, I handed over the cash to NI anyway....

AdeVanEx · Post by **AdeVanEx** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:23 am

I downloaded the demo of Nexus last night and have been playing with it for the last hour. Honestly, I really am not a fan personally.

- Most sounds will need EQ, they are quite dull sounding in the treble range.
- Most sounds are synth based which I would rather produce on the synths I own myself.
- Almost all sounds are buried under effects, and not in a practical way either, I would never use reverb the way they have on bass sounds.
- There are hardly any good choir / string sounds
- A lot of sounds have at least 2 octaves mixed in which I dislike.

I am definitely going to check out these Kontakt libraries and make a decision. I do appreciate how good and expandable Kontakt is, so it's certainly a viable option.

Thanks again!

To answer your points and to be fair to Nexus...

Nexus2 comes with a four band parametric EQ. Adjust what you don't like.
While it comes with a load of bread and butter trance sounds I found it to be the opposite, with plenty of guitars, pianos and choir sounds and also plenty of good quality strings. In fairness to you I do have a few expansions.
Your third point, which I never understand...The reverb can be adjusted comprehensively or turned OFF completely.
Your last point. ALL layers can be turned off and each oscillator can be transposed and detuned or each oscillator turned off.
The demo unfortunately is not Nexus2.
Your point about expense is very valid and I agree Nexus2 can get expensive.
Anyway good thread and I will be looking at Kontakt also.
Regards
Ade

A good ROMpler, Nexus or Omnisphere?