Follower or Leader?

[debra1rlo]

Originality is overrated.

It may also actually be quite original, but I have no way of determining that.

So originality is overrated, yet, you just admit that you sometimes don't have a way of determining if something is really original. Interesting.

[captain caveman]

Music is a complex concept that is very hard to understand. Most people, and that includes pretty much everyone in this thread, have a very limited understanding of it.

Wow, who is that not directed at (to make it easy for you)?

[Chuck E. Jesus]

Music is a complex concept that is very hard to understand. Most people, and that includes pretty much everyone in this thread, have a very limited understanding of it.

Wow, who is that not directed at (to make it easy for you)?

i'd kind of like to know that as well

[debra1rlo]

Music is a complex concept that is very hard to understand. Most people, and that includes pretty much everyone in this thread, have a very limited understanding of it.

Wow, who is that not directed at (to make it easy for you)?

i'd kind of like to know that as well

I think we already know who we are.

[eduardo_b]

Music is a complex concept that is very hard to understand. Most people, and that includes pretty much everyone in this thread, have a very limited understanding of it. So does one admit, ala Socrates, that one doesn't understand it, or does one exalt ones own prejudices to the level of 'standard'?

But this turns music into an intellectual exercise, which it can be if one wants to approach it that way, whereas as an art form it also exists at emotional levels for listeners. Being analytical isn't necessary, and any "standards" are those set by the listener.

What seems to happen though is that all kinds of baggage gets attached to music. It has to be original, it should be difficult or challenging, it shouldn't be popular. The leader vs follower thing is another one. Instead of enjoying (or not) the music, it becomes an exercise about these other things.

IMO, of course.

[eduardo_b]

Originality is overrated.

It may also actually be quite original, but I have no way of determining that.

So originality is overrated, yet, you just admit that you sometimes don't have a way of determining if something is really original. Interesting.

Meaning, it doesn't matter. Therefore, it's overrated. No contradiction. In other words, it's not a criterion for me. It obviously is for some, but I don't think most people rank originality as a must-have with music they like -- or even think of it.

[dirty oscillators]

Did I have a definition of originality in mind when I said it's overrated? Not really.

so you threw out a blanket statement, which to me sounded as if you meant it as a universal truth, but you really didn't have a definition of it in mind.

even more interesting...

[eduardo_b]

Did I have a definition of originality in mind when I said it's overrated? Not really.

so you threw out a blanket statement, which to me sounded as if you meant it as a universal truth, but you really didn't have a definition of it in mind.

even more interesting...

Only interesting unless you read the next sentence, not included here.

[Chuck E. Jesus]

Music is a complex concept that is very hard to understand. Most people, and that includes pretty much everyone in this thread, have a very limited understanding of it.

Wow, who is that not directed at (to make it easy for you)?

i'd kind of like to know that as well

I think we already know who we are.

well, i know he ain't talking to me...i'm way hep...

[dirty oscillators]

Did I have a definition of originality in mind when I said it's overrated? Not really.

so you threw out a blanket statement, which to me sounded as if you meant it as a universal truth, but you really didn't have a definition of it in mind.

even more interesting...

Only interesting unless you read the next sentence, not included here.

so what is it? you did have a definition of it or you didn't?

and secondly, do you feel that originality is a quality that should be or is perceived the same by everyone or not? because i didn't see any "IMO" or "to me," in your original statement.

[herodotus]

Music is a complex concept that is very hard to understand. Most people, and that includes pretty much everyone in this thread, have a very limited understanding of it.

Wow, who is that not directed at (to make it easy for you)?

i'd kind of like to know that as well

It wasn't directed at anyone.

And I myself would never claim to understand what music is, so if you want to, you can say it was directed at me.


Really, I have never met or read anyone who I thought actually understood music as a whole. It is part of what makes music so interesting. Peter Yates does better than most, though. Paul Griffiths is pretty even handed as well.

But even in those cases I wouldn't say that they 'understood music' in the sense that one can understand chemistry or mathematics or understand how a computer or a car works.

[debra1rlo]

Originality is overrated.

It may also actually be quite original, but I have no way of determining that.

So originality is overrated, yet, you just admit that you sometimes don't have a way of determining if something is really original. Interesting.

Meaning, it doesn't matter. Therefore, it's overrated. No contradiction. In other words, it's not a criterion for me. It obviously is for some, but I don't think most people rank originality as a must-have with music they like -- or even think of it.

I didn't say that it was necessarily a contradiction. It just means you don't value originality. Which I think is somewhat different from saying originality is overrated.

[dirty oscillators]

Originality is overrated.

It may also actually be quite original, but I have no way of determining that.

So originality is overrated, yet, you just admit that you sometimes don't have a way of determining if something is really original. Interesting.

Meaning, it doesn't matter. Therefore, it's overrated. No contradiction. In other words, it's not a criterion for me. It obviously is for some, but I don't think most people rank originality as a must-have with music they like -- or even think of it.

things are not so cut and dry as you try to make out. especially when talking about "art" or "originality"...

edited: left out the "not"

[dirty oscillators]

I wonder if the terms original and copy carry significance from early in childhood, when doing schoolwork and being admonished to not copy but do one's own work. Copying is hardly a crime against creativity, but perhaps the negative connotation lingers on. Copying is also linked to imitating, as if one is taking credit for the creativity of someone else. There's a lot of psychological baggage attached to these words, and maybe that contributes to the opinions being expressed about them. As if originality is the only legitimate form of art.

what about sampling? do you think that because a hip hop artist samples a record from the 60's that their music doesn't have originality?

what do you mean when you say original and copy? you talk about things in such a generalistic way... unless a band is doing a cover, there is never going to be a song that completely copies another.

[eduardo_b]

Did I have a definition of originality in mind when I said it's overrated? Not really.

so you threw out a blanket statement, which to me sounded as if you meant it as a universal truth, but you really didn't have a definition of it in mind.

even more interesting...

Only interesting unless you read the next sentence, not included here.

so what is it? you did have a definition of it or you didn't?

and secondly, do you feel that originality is a quality that should be or is perceived the same by everyone or not? because i didn't see any "IMO" or "to me," in your original statement.

The definition that is self-evident is "different from anything already in existence." I meant I didn't have a more complex, comprehensive definition beyond that in mind when I wrote originality is overrated.

Originality is a quality of perception of one work compared to others. It isn't a musical quality. That is, one can enjoy music without any concern or awareness of it being original or not. The concept of originality can be applied by a listener if that's their intention, but it has nothing to do inherently with the music itself.

So perhaps we simply disagree on the width and depth of what originality means? Or whether it matters?

/edit
Bloody spelling error.