Follower or Leader?

[thecontrolcentre]

[vurt]

Only one thing in mind at the moment: GODFLESH

Good band, but not as good as Spinal Tap.

Please don't change my quotes, robojam. Behave yourself now.

Well, it seems I didn't stick to the message the OP originally intended to get across?

yeah robo, godflesh kick spinal taps arse!

[dirty oscillators]

Well, it seems I didn't get to massage and stick it to the OP as I had originally intended.

[robogone]

We still haven't figured out if he's English or American

Still trying to figure that one out myself...

[Sascha Franck]

Sorry for the kinda late reply...

[...]and now he is a virtual Charlie Parker (as long as he has the sheet music in front of him)...fine if that's his goals and whatnot, but now he has some sort of attitude that he knows "real music"..and i've never heard anything particularly interesting or dare i say "original" come out of it, and now he is impossible to even jam with for fun...i'm not trying to contradict you or anything, just pointing out two sides to the same coin...

IMO that's exactly what things are about, the two sides of the coin that is.
Once you decide to become a professional musician (well, it could as well "just happen"), you usually become what I'd call "musical prostitute" as well. If you really want to earn some money from that stuff, there's simply not enough paying jobs so you'd have a choice, so in the end you will have to play Top40, musicals, cover shows, dinner jazz and what not. Apart from some few exceptions and the "major league" (top studio players and producers), you're rarely asked for a job because of originality but rather because you're good at reproducing, more or less easy to deal with, proper at reading sheets and all that.
This often (even usually) results in some things:
- You won't exactly concentrate on your own stuff much anymore. All your time is taken up by learning others tunes, preparing for paid gigs. In your free time, you actually enjoy not having to deal much with your instrument (or music in general) at all.
- In case you're making your living by playing live (as in my case), your weekends will often be your major working time. As a result, it's not all that easy to join a pure "fun" band, because in case there'd be some gigs for that fun project, they'd most likely happen on weekends, too, very often causing a conflict with your financial interests (I've been there).
- You get used to working on a professional level, expect your bandmates to quickly get through arrangements, read and interprete sheets, etc., something often not happening on a "fun" level. Please don't take this as an arrogant note, it's just an observation I made and it's an observation I share with some of my "professional" mates. A bit like "hey, this is just for fun, why should I spend that much more time on rehearsing than on something that I'll actually be getting paid for?". Ok, it *might* even be a tad arrogant, but this seems to simply happen.

In a nutshell, being "original" has very little place in whatever professional musical environments. Of course, if you wanted to make it big with your own stuff, a certain amount of originality (depending on the style) would be sort of a requirement, but for those of us actually making their living by "delivering", it's rarely asked for. Personally, I try to bring in what I feel is "my own" as much as I can, though. But over all, that's just a very little percentage in the big picture. Usually it's "ok, Sascha knows a lot of styles and tunes, can quickly jump into tunes, even if he doesn't know them, let's hire him".
As another result of that, I do of course concentrate on these "qualities" instead of focussing on something original of my own. I may for example just learn a few more Realbook tunes instead of composing/arranging some stuff. As an example, just at this very moment, I'm trying to get some sort of "best of the 70s" show together (as a follow-up to the Abba cover show I'm currently playing with), thinking about concepts which would result in the highest interest regarding what we may call a "well educated, financially well suited" target audience. That's got absolutely nothing to do with originality, but it's got all to do with reproducing as good as I can.

All this does have a little sad flavour to it, but in the end, it's what I decided to do and my rent, insurances and what not defenitely need to be paid.
Seriously, sometimes there's those moments when I really regret not having studied informartics (which I originally planned to do back in the days, like 20 years ago or so), keeping music as my hobby. On the other hand, it's a really great job, at least partially combining one of my "loves" and my financial interests.

and i hear you about being rude: i'm trying to be nicer, but i seemed to have failed miserably in the last few days i guess some people just bring out the worst in me...

Well, things like that happen. A while ago, I've been permanently banned from the german Logicuser.de forum for being a too harsh Apple critician. They didn't even give me the chance of a comeback, it was my first ban on any forum ever and it was permanent instantly. Well, in that case I can just say "pfft - you don't deserve me!".

- Sascha

[eduardo_b]

Once you decide to become a professional musician (well, it could as well "just happen"), you usually become what I'd call "musical prostitute" as well. If you really want to earn some money from that stuff, there's simply not enough paying jobs so you'd have a choice, so in the end you will have to play Top40, musicals, cover shows, dinner jazz and what not. Apart from some few exceptions and the "major league" (top studio players and producers), you're rarely asked for a job because of originality but rather because you're good at reproducing, more or less easy to deal with, proper at reading sheets and all that.

So would you say the difference between being a "professional musician" and an "artist" is whether you're doing your own material or someone else's? In that sense, being original is writing your own music instead of playing what others have written and likely recorded. While being able to cover other people's work can be highly appreciated, it doesn't seem to carry the status of playing your own songs. At the same time, there are any number of singers who are highly regarded but don't write their own material. Or so it seems.

[Sascha Franck]

So would you say the difference between being a "professional musician" and an "artist" is whether you're doing your own material or someone else's? In that sense, being original is writing your own music instead of playing what others have written and likely recorded. While being able to cover other people's work can be highly appreciated, it doesn't seem to carry the status of playing your own songs. At the same time, there are any number of singers who are highly regarded but don't write their own material. Or so it seems.

Well, sure, there's, say, some jazz artists (and someone like Elvis) who never wrote a single song, yet are highly respected for their artistry/originailty. But I was simply talking about the "daily life" of an average musician earning his/her income from music. You really don't have much of a choice in such a position.
Sometimes, there's a few chances of adding your own flavour to it, but that's almost it already.
For example, I'm occasionally playing a duo with just a singer. Now, we're only covering stuff, but as most of the music has been fully produced stuff, it's up to me to look for an arrangement that'd work with just one guitar and vocals. But in the first place, this is more of a technical challenge rather than trying to be original, simply because the people we play for expect the tune to be as close to the original as it gets. Sometimes I manage to throw in something "original" (or at least not 100% as to be expected), but that's really rare.

Fwiw, I'm not complaining at all, but merely pointing out a few things. Personally, I sometimes think that in case I had a job completely away from anything musically, I might be more creative/original, but in that case I'd most likely not have enough energy to really concentrate on it.
And well, I actually happen to like covering some songs, nailing them on the guitar and so on. I also find it to be rather easy (I have a pretty well trained ear and apart from some heavy noddlings, I can usually play most things after simply listening to them for a few times), so it's really not bad.
It's simply that I can't claim I'd be doing anything original or so. Sometimes that's a bit sad, but most often I'm getting away with it just fine, and I usually don't worry about my "musical health" or so.

[Locus M]

Given the definitions of original

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/original

it should actually be possible for an original to be an unoriginal singer who sings original songs in an unoriginal way

[robogone]

Weren't Spinal Tap once the New Originals?

[debra1rlo]

Weren't Spinal Tap once the New Originals?

[alex trebek] Sorry, that was the Thamesmen.... The Thamesmen [/alex trebek]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A503650

[robogone]

Weren't Spinal Tap once the New Originals?

[alex trebek] Sorry, that was the Thamesmen.... The Thamesmen [/alex trebek]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A503650

Sorry, it's confusing for me as I don't know if I'm American or English.

[dirty oscillators]

Weren't Spinal Tap once the New Originals?

[alex trebek] Sorry, that was the Thamesmen.... The Thamesmen [/alex trebek]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A503650

Sorry, it's confusing for me as I don't know if I'm American or English.

it must be really difficult determining which accent to use when you speak.

[robogone]

Weren't Spinal Tap once the New Originals?

[alex trebek] Sorry, that was the Thamesmen.... The Thamesmen [/alex trebek]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A503650

Sorry, it's confusing for me as I don't know if I'm American or English.

it must be really difficult determining which accent to use when you speak.

It is - I don't know whether to pronounce color with or without the 'u'.

[debra1rlo]

Weren't Spinal Tap once the New Originals?

[alex trebek] Sorry, that was the Thamesmen.... The Thamesmen [/alex trebek]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A503650

Sorry, it's confusing for me as I don't know if I'm American or English.

it must be really difficult determining which accent to use when you speak.

It is - I don't know whether to pronounce color with or without the 'u'.

I'd bet eduardo would value your opinion more if you'd just commit to being English. That and if you composed and performed fruity, accessible pop music.

[robogone]

I'd bet eduardo would value your opinion more if you'd just commit to being English. That and if you composed and performed fruity, accessible pop music.

Could I do everything except the being fruity part...?