Tls 3127 Leveling Amplifier

[shamann]

Exactly, BertKoor! I think too much is being read into it. And if the intention was to not allow a plugin's usage in commercial projects, they better do a much better job of wording the user agreement...stated as is no court would even waste their time hearing a case on that basis.

Read this:

http://hem.bredband.net/tbtaudio/archiv ... rchive.txt

Seems pretty explicit to me that they are not to be used on commercial projects.

[shogger]

Read this:

http://hem.bredband.net/tbtaudio/archiv ... rchive.txt

Seems pretty explicit to me that they are not to be used on commercial projects.

Oh,

I never saw that. Then I have to replace a few plugins with commercially usable solutions. Seems to be time to finally buy Elephant.

Shogger

[jdt]

You can't have an original User Agreement posted, and then put qualifications on it in a " here's an example of what I think I was trying to say" explaination after the fact. That's just plain stupid.

It's like "Download these Royalty Free Drum Loops and use them freely in your projects, but if you ever sell one of your compositions, we will sue you for including our work...". It's not legal. It's unethical. And if it isn't included in the original Agreement, it's irrelevant. I mean I have no problem if that is a Developers original intention, but if they put it out there for free, they really should do a little investigation into Contract Law before doing so.

[shamann]

Look, in practical terms, you could violate any and all software licenses no matter how they are worded. No one is ever going to know what you did to enforce any of it.

But, we generally follow their intent because it's the right thing to do, respecting the developer's efforts and intentions. This isn't an especially viable legal document, sure, but that's not really the point. Dude says play by my rules to use my plugins, I say okay and move on to something that doesn't come with strings attached. Seems all fairly straightforward.

[BertKoor]

Read this:
http://hem.bredband.net/tbtaudio/archiv ... rchive.txt

I did. For others that are too lazy to click on a link:

Hi and welcome to Tin Brooke Tales archive!

Here you'll find various audio related files to download.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All samples on this site was home produced and as a general rule of thumb you are allowed to use them as you see fit.
You are NOT allowed to sell them or to re-copy.

All VST plugins on this site was programmed by me (Daniel Lind) and are FREEWARE.
You agree to use them at your own risk where I will not be held responsible for any damage or loss off data caused by these dll's.

you are allowed to use them for personal use only.
You are NOT allowed to sell them or to re-copy them.

And to clarify what this really mean:

Its really just based around that if I put a freeware label on it and the tool then is used in a business form to make money then it kind of defeat the purpose...

An over the top example: you got a mastering business where you use one plugin.. the Tls maximizer and then make money out of it..... that's bad..

So it is about using the tool in a creative way and not just seeing it as a cheap way to make money by "using" it... he said in a "I want the world to be a better place" way....

VST is a trademark of Steinberg.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope you'll find some creative use with my stuff!

//Daniel

The first half of the text is clear. You may use it, but no distribution of the .dll is allowed.

Then he goes into clarification and it becomes fuzzy.

Seems pretty explicit to me that they are not to be used on commercial projects.

And that's exactly why we're having this discussion: it's not really clear at all.

The facts:

• private usage: cool
• commercial mastering business based on one plugin being the Tls maximizer: bad
• anything inbetween: huge grey area!

But what he does, is appeal on your own moral. You know of yourself weather you're in the multi-million DeadMou5 / Brandon Trinity league or just a guy in his bedroom studio with a MySpace page, hoping to get one box of CD's to be sold or played on an internet radio station.

And if you do make some money with your music, then you know yourself when to stop using freebies and start investing in the big boy plugins.

[shamann]

Yeah, but no one's ever going to argue this document in court. It's namby pamby at best.

But it's obvious what Daniel's intentions are, these plugins are for personal creative uses, not commercial endeavours. I don't think very highly of the position he's taking, but whatever, it's his position to take and I'll respect that.

[BertKoor]

Yeah, but no one's ever going to argue this document in court. It's namby pamby at best.

True.

I don't think very highly of the position he's taking, but whatever, it's his position to take and I'll respect that.

It sounds a bit like the Reaper's EULA, but there at least you can pay off for commercial usage. It would be nice to have at least a way to make a donation.

[jdt]

Well, from what I have gathered, the whole reason a developer offers a free plugin is to get you on the hook by offering you a quality VST so you will be more inclined to buy some of their higher end products. If they want to discourage commercial use, then they could easily incorporate the random noise/silence and time-out techniques that many do with their "give aways".

If the logic of this discussion holds true, then any plugin that you "BUY" that was made with SynthMaker or Synthedit would also be unusable in any commercial project, unless you were also following their User Agreement. And I would imagine the same would hold true for any DAW that you use as well.
And in the end I suppose the only way to be safe is just never make any money off your music, and you'll be safe! And if you decide to use wax cylinders and an old Victrola setup... Don't forget to send a check to Thomas Edison's heirs!

[justified]

Well, from what I have gathered, the whole reason a developer offers a free plugin is to get you on the hook by offering you a quality VST so you will be more inclined to buy some of their higher end products. If they want to discourage commercial use, then they could easily incorporate the random noise/silence and time-out techniques that many do with their "give aways".

There's also non-commercial use, like creative commons.

[jdt]

Yes indeed, but Creative Commons License is a totally seperate issue actually.
Although it may apply, I have never heard of it being connected to VSTs. I suppose it could be, just never seen it used in that application. And again, it usually applies to Intellectual Property Rights, i.e. redistribution and /or resale of the un-altered original, which belongs exclusively to the creator, and not the reuse of say a drumloop, instrument sample, or section thereof in an entirely new original composition produced by the End User. Royalty Free, is just that. And if specified as such, and offered that way to others, the right to its usage can't be revoked at a later date at the whim of the original creator.

[bmanic]

It's just too much of a headache besides I already deleted them. They are good plugins but do not fit at all into my way of working because I do not separate "fun homemade beats" from "might some sell someday beats" from "these definitely sell" stuff.

I cannot help but think that there must be a better way of being anti-commercial than what Daniel goes for.. oh well, it's his choice of course and mine is to not use the plugins.

Cheers!
bManic

[enroe]

Well, from what I have gathered, the whole reason a developer offers a free plugin is to get you on the hook by offering you a quality VST so you will be more inclined to buy some of their higher end products. If they want to discourage commercial use, then they could easily incorporate the random noise/silence and time-out techniques that many do with their "give aways".
...

The whole reason can also be another one: It can be a step against the
"commercialize everything and every ace". The current financial crisis
shows us the bad side of the "striving for profit at any cost". For
every ace of museum of tourist sight you have to pay pay pay - money is
the world! Money makes manager and even ordinary people eager, so that
they would do nearly everything. We've seen this scenario at big
companies. And we see this in our every day life.

Couldn't there be another concept?

Perhaps a modern world where not everything is measured by the money? A
world where unsalaried und honorary persons working for society are
cherished much more. A world where a person is not appreciated only by
the size of his/her wallet?

A dialogue in Spaceship enterprise comes into my mind: A visitor from
the 20th century is amazed and asks: "This must have cost a lot of
money, doesn't it?" Captain Picard answered: "We don't have any money.
Money was abolished in the 23rd century already."

Even today we know the "Open source group" with their special
"non-commercial" spirit. We know the Unix-world and we know this
kvr-freeware world. We know groups who discuss the meaning of money in
an abstract way: Does it improve the humanity in our world? Or is it a
means of power and supression? Of course, this is a complex, large
discussion, never ending perhaps. And I think the idea of protecting an
area where money has no meaning is very charming.

Considering these ideas the "freeware offer" here becomes a totally
altered aspect, a philosophical aspect of another society and future
... so maybe this is it, what Daniel wants to implicate here?
He creates his marvellous plugins for us. And we artists use it - all
for free - without money involved. And Daniel just wants that also in
all results of our creativity money is not involved. A honourable idea.

Greetings, enroe.

[freddemillio]

Well, from what I have gathered, the whole reason a developer offers a free plugin is to get you on the hook by offering you a quality VST so you will be more inclined to buy some of their higher end products. If they want to discourage commercial use, then they could easily incorporate the random noise/silence and time-out techniques that many do with their "give aways".
...

The whole reason can also be another one: It can be a step against the
"commercialize everything and every ace". The current financial crisis
shows us the bad side of the "striving for profit at any cost". For
every ace of museum of tourist sight you have to pay pay pay - money is
the world! Money makes manager and even ordinary people eager, so that
they would do nearly everything. We've seen this scenario at big
companies. And we see this in our every day life.

Couldn't there be another concept?

Perhaps a modern world where not everything is measured by the money? A
world where unsalaried und honorary persons working for society are
cherished much more. A world where a person is not appreciated only by
the size of his/her wallet?

A dialogue in Spaceship enterprise comes into my mind: A visitor form
the 20th century is amazed and asks: "This must have cost a lot of
money, doesn't it?" Captain Picard answered: "We don't have any money.
Money was abolished in the 23rd century already."

Even today we know the "Open source group" with their special
"non-commercial" spirit. We know the Unix-world and we know this
kvr-freeware world. We know groups who discuss the meaning of money in
an abstract way: Does it improve the humanity in our world? Or is it a
means of power and supression? Of course, this is a complex, large
discussion, never ending perhaps. And I think the idea of protecting an
area where money has no meaning is very charming.

Considering these ideas the "freeware offer" here becomes a totally
altered aspect, a philosophical aspect of another society and future
... so maybe this is it, what Daniel wants to implicate here?
He creates his marvellous plugins for us. And we artists use it - all
for free - without money involved. And Daniel just wants that also in
all results of our creativity money is not involved. A honourable idea.

Greetings, enroe.

At this point, all I can write is: +1.
Nicely said.

[Toonman]

I didn't mean to spin this into a paranoir spiral of death... that's why I mentioned that the user agreement is worded in a rather lose way. Taking from the following sentence...

" if I put a freeware label on it and the tool then is used in a business form to make money then it kind of defeat the purpose... ". What here constitutes making money? I understand the facility example... but as others have mentioned, selling music which used these plugins during its production can also be defined as a business...

Anyway... don't mean to turn this into an ugly issue any further. Cheers!

[FrettedSynth]

enroe - That was very nice to read, sad that day will never happen The lazy will always try to take from those who work hard and somehow profit from them. Just look at the banks and wall street and for that matter governments of all types.

Peace
Fretted Synth

Sorry all for the OT