So Im reading up on music theory, someone on the forum recommended the complete idiots guide to music theory I cant remember who but thanks a lot so far I really enjoy this book. Haven't read that much but compared to Ravenspiral's guide (who also thought me a lot) this is easier for me to understand. Maybe it has something to do with me not being a native english speaker or what ever but I find this easier to understand.
Anyway my real question is this I guess its fairly simple but I have yet to find an explanation that I can understand. So when reading about music theory I frequently find the phrase ".. relative to the key of X" or "X minor is relative to X mayor" etc.
Would love to have some help with this.
Exactly what does related to mean?
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- KVRer
- 15 posts since 8 Aug, 2008 from sweden
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- KVRAF
- 6519 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from UK
The minor scale built off the sixth note of any major scale is its relative minor. It contains the same notes.
C major - C D E F G A B C
has a relative minor built off it's 6th degree, A...
A minor A B C D E F G A
The same relationship works across all keys
F major - F G A Bb C D E F
has a relative minor built off it's 6th degree, D...
D minor - D E F G A Bb C D
The relationship goes both ways. C major is the relative major of A minor.
C major - C D E F G A B C
has a relative minor built off it's 6th degree, A...
A minor A B C D E F G A
The same relationship works across all keys
F major - F G A Bb C D E F
has a relative minor built off it's 6th degree, D...
D minor - D E F G A Bb C D
The relationship goes both ways. C major is the relative major of A minor.
Last edited by nuffink on Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRian
- 538 posts since 18 Feb, 2005
Found this maybe it will help:
In music, a closely related key is one sharing many common tones with the original key.
In elementary harmony, these are the family of keys that shares either all pitches or all but one pitch with the key it is being compared to. These keys are on either side of the original key on the circle of fifths and its relative majors or minors.
These keys, having 6 of 7 possible common tones with the original key, are the most commonly used destinations or transpositions in a modulation, because these keys are the most closely related, are based on the subdominant and dominant of the home key, which are often structurally significant, and which, with the tonic, create the strongest of tonal chord progressions.
Major Relative Minor Dominant and Subdominants
C a F, G, d, e
G e C, D, a, b
D b G, A, e, f#
A f# D, E, b, c#
E c# A, B, f#, g#
B g# E, F#, c#, d#
Gb (F#) eb (d#) Cb (B), Db (C#), ab (g#), bb (a#)
Db bb Gb, Ab, eb, f
Ab f Db, Eb, bb, c
Eb c Ab, Bb, f, g
Bb g Eb, F, c, d
F d Bb, C, g, a
Table of closely related keys (major keys designated by uppercase letters; minors by lowercase):
In modern music, the closeness of a relation between any two keys may be determined by the number of tones they share in common, which allows one to consider modulations not occurring in standard major-minor tonality. For example, in music based on the pentatonic scale containing pitches C,D,E,G, and A, modulating a fifth higher gives the collection of pitches G,A,B,D, and E, having four of five tones in common. However, modulating up a tritone would produce F#, G#, A#, C#, D#, which shares no common tones with the original scale. Thus the scale a fifth higher is very closely related, while the scale a tritone higher is not. Other modulations may be placed in order from closest to most distant depending upon the number of common tones.
See also: Pitch space. ReferencesHoward Hanson, Harmonic Materials of Modern Music. Appleton-Century-Crofts, Inc, 1960.
In music, a closely related key is one sharing many common tones with the original key.
In elementary harmony, these are the family of keys that shares either all pitches or all but one pitch with the key it is being compared to. These keys are on either side of the original key on the circle of fifths and its relative majors or minors.
These keys, having 6 of 7 possible common tones with the original key, are the most commonly used destinations or transpositions in a modulation, because these keys are the most closely related, are based on the subdominant and dominant of the home key, which are often structurally significant, and which, with the tonic, create the strongest of tonal chord progressions.
Major Relative Minor Dominant and Subdominants
C a F, G, d, e
G e C, D, a, b
D b G, A, e, f#
A f# D, E, b, c#
E c# A, B, f#, g#
B g# E, F#, c#, d#
Gb (F#) eb (d#) Cb (B), Db (C#), ab (g#), bb (a#)
Db bb Gb, Ab, eb, f
Ab f Db, Eb, bb, c
Eb c Ab, Bb, f, g
Bb g Eb, F, c, d
F d Bb, C, g, a
Table of closely related keys (major keys designated by uppercase letters; minors by lowercase):
In modern music, the closeness of a relation between any two keys may be determined by the number of tones they share in common, which allows one to consider modulations not occurring in standard major-minor tonality. For example, in music based on the pentatonic scale containing pitches C,D,E,G, and A, modulating a fifth higher gives the collection of pitches G,A,B,D, and E, having four of five tones in common. However, modulating up a tritone would produce F#, G#, A#, C#, D#, which shares no common tones with the original scale. Thus the scale a fifth higher is very closely related, while the scale a tritone higher is not. Other modulations may be placed in order from closest to most distant depending upon the number of common tones.
See also: Pitch space. ReferencesHoward Hanson, Harmonic Materials of Modern Music. Appleton-Century-Crofts, Inc, 1960.
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- KVRian
- 1000 posts since 25 Feb, 2008 from Sydney, Australia
Its when a Major key contains the SAME notes as a particular minor key or vice versa, they are said to be related or Relative
C Major = C D E F G A B
A minor = A B C D E F G
C Major and C minor, for example, are not relative because they have different notes (B,E,A compared to Bb,Eb,Ab)
You will find that every Major key has a relative minor key.
Kind of like "Good Cop, Bad Cop"
C Major = C D E F G A B
A minor = A B C D E F G
C Major and C minor, for example, are not relative because they have different notes (B,E,A compared to Bb,Eb,Ab)
You will find that every Major key has a relative minor key.
Kind of like "Good Cop, Bad Cop"
Prestissimo in Moto Perpetuo
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- KVRAF
- 6519 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from UK
Sorry, while that may be accurate it's not what's meant by relative scales, which have a very specific meaning.jdt wrote:Found this maybe it will help:
In music, a closely related key is one sharing many common tones with the original key.
In elementary harmony, these are the family of keys that shares either all pitches or all but one pitch with the key it is being compared to. These keys are on either side of the original key on the circle of fifths and its relative majors or minors.
These keys, having 6 of 7 possible common tones with the original key, are the most commonly used destinations or transpositions in a modulation, because these keys are the most closely related, are based on the subdominant and dominant of the home key, which are often structurally significant, and which, with the tonic, create the strongest of tonal chord progressions.
Major Relative Minor Dominant and Subdominants
C a F, G, d, e
G e C, D, a, b
D b G, A, e, f#
A f# D, E, b, c#
E c# A, B, f#, g#
B g# E, F#, c#, d#
Gb (F#) eb (d#) Cb (B), Db (C#), ab (g#), bb (a#)
Db bb Gb, Ab, eb, f
Ab f Db, Eb, bb, c
Eb c Ab, Bb, f, g
Bb g Eb, F, c, d
F d Bb, C, g, a
Table of closely related keys (major keys designated by uppercase letters; minors by lowercase):
In modern music, the closeness of a relation between any two keys may be determined by the number of tones they share in common, which allows one to consider modulations not occurring in standard major-minor tonality. For example, in music based on theA, modu pentatonic scale containing pitches C,D,E,G, and lating a fifth higher gives the collection of pitches G,A,B,D, and E, having four of five tones in common. However, modulating up a tritone would produce F#, G#, A#, C#, D#, which shares no common tones with the original scale. Thus the scale a fifth higher is very closely related, while the scale a tritone higher is not. Other modulations may be placed in order from closest to most distant depending upon the number of common tones.
See also: Pitch space. ReferencesHoward Hanson, Harmonic Materials of Modern Music. Appleton-Century-Crofts, Inc, 1960.
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- KVRian
- 538 posts since 18 Feb, 2005
The OP didn't ask specifically for "Relative Scales" , he asked about the meaning of the musical term relative... So the info I posted was totally accurate and relevant.nuffink wrote:Sorry, while that may be accurate it's not what's meant by relative scales, which have a very specific meaning.
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- addled muppet weed
- 111275 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
Exactly what does related to mean?
father is to son
as aunt is to grandma
they are family.
father is to son
as aunt is to grandma
they are family.
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- KVRian
- 538 posts since 18 Feb, 2005
Re-lated is when you don't get to the same gig on time...twice! 
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- KVRAF
- 6519 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from UK
Yes, he did ask about relative scales...jdt wrote:The OP didn't ask specifically for "Relative Scales" , he asked about the meaning of the musical term relative... So the info I posted was totally accurate and relevant.nuffink wrote:Sorry, while that may be accurate it's not what's meant by relative scales, which have a very specific meaning.
He also said that he was...viktorlund wrote:...
Anyway my real question is this I guess its fairly simple but I have yet to find an explanation that I can understand. So when reading about music theory I frequently find the phrase ".. relative to the key of X" or "X minor is relative to X mayor" etc.
...which explains the "related" typo in the thread heading.viktorlund wrote:not being a native english speaker or what ever
Instead of arguing the toss about it and confusing him further, how about you do the poor guy a favour and tell him you misunderstood and gave him inaccurate advice?
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- KVRian
- 538 posts since 18 Feb, 2005
No argument, but again... there was nothing inacurate about the info I gave him, so I would never say there was. The musical term relative does apply to more than scales.nuffink wrote:Yes, he did ask about relative scales...jdt wrote:The OP didn't ask specifically for "Relative Scales" , he asked about the meaning of the musical term relative... So the info I posted was totally accurate and relevant.nuffink wrote:Sorry, while that may be accurate it's not what's meant by relative scales, which have a very specific meaning.
He also said that he was...viktorlund wrote:...
to the key of X" or "X minor is relative to X mayor" etc....which explains the "related" typo in the thread heading.viktorlund wrote:not being a native english speaker or what ever
Instead of arguing the toss about it and confusing him further, how about you do the poor guy a favour and tell him you misunderstood and gave him inaccurate advice?
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- KVRist
- 102 posts since 11 Mar, 2008
Hey, I've been recommending that book a lot! I hope you like it as much as I do.
Just to help clear up any confusion, nuffink gave you the correct explanation in the first reply. That's how the author uses the term through the whole book, if I remember correctly. I'm not saying other definitions aren't possible, just that in this context, "related" or "relative" have very specific meanings.
Just to help clear up any confusion, nuffink gave you the correct explanation in the first reply. That's how the author uses the term through the whole book, if I remember correctly. I'm not saying other definitions aren't possible, just that in this context, "related" or "relative" have very specific meanings.
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- KVRist
- 80 posts since 10 Jun, 2005
When it comes to relative scales, the very first answer is correct. These are major and minor scales that have the same number of sharps -- or flats. D major and b minor (2 sharps). Gb major and eb minor (6 flats), A major and f# minor (3 sharps) etc. If you look at any major scale, its relative minor starts on scale degree 6 (of that major scale). If you look at any (natural) minor scale, your relative major will start on scale degree 3 (of that natural minor scale). Easy.