KVR Audio

dj! (112dB) · Post by **dj! (112dB)** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:57 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:My only hesitation is that I already have reaktor (hence space master 2), and I'm not sure I find a huge difference. But I haven't tested extensively enough to notice the smaller differences. Still waiting for dj112 to give me the scoop on what's been improved (do you see my post back a bit?).

I did but completely forgot to reply to it.

The main man behind the Rev-6/Space Master/R66/Redline Reverb reverb algorithm is really Martijn Zwartjes. So to be honest I can't give you the full lowdown on what exactly has changed in the reverb algorithm--what I do know is that it's probably better described in terms of "tweaks" than "changes".

Apart from that, the obvious advantages of Redline Reverb are the GUI, the presets, and the (I'm sure) much much lower CPU load compared to the Reaktor ensembles. Plus the fact that, now the algorithm is available in plugin again, we are planning a next installment in the series (Redline Reverb 2) with some more pronounced improvements--so you'd be buying into that.

Good enough?

-- dj!

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:57 pm

fridtjof wrote:I think people are not keeping in mind that this reverb uses about 2-4% CPU, which is quite extraordinary considering the quality. This is quite rare.

To be honest fridtjof, when evaluating the quality of a plugin, I never look at CPU usage first. I evaluate quality via audition first, then look at CPU usage...and I think most people do the same.

So say if I download a compressor and it sounds bad, even if it uses 0.3% CPU, that will not make it more desirable to me.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:58 pm

Hmm.. no offense ttoz but I have a feeling you simply tweaked the thing "wrong" or something. Or then you have very different taste as to what is considered metallic sounding. IMHO redline reverb is a more of a ultra-grain / phased out thing instead of resonant (aka metallic) buildup.

For instance, it IS possible to make it sound very strange and more like one of those vintage oildrum reverb things.

The key to tweaking this seems to be the damping. Also, even at 100% late reflections, the early reflection knob affects the reverb significantly. Also, don't look at the numbers like the "size" says. Even if it says only 10m in size you can make a HUGE drumroom. It gets silly sounding at anything over 40m for sure but the option is there to be able to create experimental spaces.

I'll post some examples soon so you can tell me what exactly is wrong with them.

Cheers!
bManic

Franzel · Post by **Franzel** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:03 pm

ttoz wrote:i am absolutely sorry for my strong words, and as stated, i made peace with redline directly in the topic and said some pretty good stuff about them too (sorry i mean 112db)

but yeah sorry for going OTT

see, i can post an example of exactly what i mean by the metallic and grainy but i promised i wouldn't do anything more in this thread, so i don't know if that crosses the line or not. It's just a short vocal snippet that directly highlights the problem i was talking about in the late reflections (at larger room sizes it affects the early as well but for short small room sounds the reverb is quite good)

I'd really like to hear it just to understand where you're coming from (apart from down under...

). I demoed Redline Reverb for a day and bought it, though I don't need another reverb (I already have CSR, AAR and Masterverb).
As some of the other posters I perceive the sound of Redline Reverb completely different than you, so I'm curious.....

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:05 pm

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justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:15 pm

I'd like to add to the chorus of praise! This is a fantastic reverb. It compliments my other favorites (AAR, Uhbik-A, and TL Space) quite nicely. You'll most likely be getting a piece of my paycheck tomorrow.

Thanks!

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:21 pm

ttoz wrote:@bmanic:

i was very careful with the damping, believe me. I used similar settings on live's built in reverb, warmverb demo, and even apple matrix au freebie reverb LOL. the live one was pretty bad i must admit.

No offence either bmanic but i do know how to tweak a reverb, i been doing this for a while too you know, even if no where near as long as you, and reverb was one of my earliest obsessions back 20 years ago when i started learning.

And i realized the hugeness of the rooms and that this goes well beyond the "norm".

I also achieved some of the similar results using the presets, but the demo i am talking about is all my own doing. I simply prefer that i cant't make a reverb sound this way, even if i try, cause i'd rather make it sound great and not be able to bring out the bad in it.

actually, that's my point. with careful programming, this is ok-ish.. I am not talking about i'd use it, but it's "ok".

but it's far harder to dial in a good sound than it is a bad one. That's my point exactly, really. I'd have to spend a similar amount of time getting spazio for example to sound that bad, and in fact i don't think i could do it.

YMMV.

so a yes for the mp3 from me? and if so, can someone suggest a good free upload place? thanks.

I do agree with you about VariVerb Pro. It's very good but like you said, it's much too buggy (at least the demo is). However, I was able to do some cool things with it just like in Variverb Pro. I liked the Retro Hall and Retro Room algorithms the most and these are pretty similar to redline reverb. Grainy but no resonance buildup. This is why I am so surprised by your comments. Or do you prefer the more realistic algorithms in Variverb? You do realize that some of the very sought after classics are very grainy as well? You keep talking about drums bringing out the worst in reverbs which in my experience is not true at all. Some very good classic reverbs absolutely suck on any rimshot/snare/kick but works very well on synth pads, strings, choirs etc. Anything that has a rather slower attack.

Just trying to understand you because I can surely learn from that as well.

Cheers!
bManic

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:24 pm

ttoz wrote: so a yes for the mp3 from me? and if so, can someone suggest a good free upload place? thanks.

I say yes mate.

Try this to upload the mp3 http://mp3upload.ca/old_uploader.php

faab · Post by **faab** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:31 pm

Great reverb with a little tweaking here and there you can get an amazing sound out of it.
Upgraded to my wanted list : )

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:56 pm

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A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:05 pm

ttoz wrote:thanks for the mp3 upload link.

http://mp3upload.ca/files/11658/herewegoagain__vox_01

Yep, now I see what you call metallic.

But can't any reverb be tweaked to sound like that? I was wondering if the cause if the values chosen, or the actual algorithm itself.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:10 pm

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Warp69 · Post by **Warp69** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:18 pm

ttoz wrote:.......it's ok for a software reverb...........

It sounds like you have some experience with hardware reverbs - is that correct? And if so - which one do you prefer?

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:19 pm

I do see what you're saying ttoz. Small changes have a huge effect. That can be good or bad depending on how you see it I guess.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:27 pm

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Redline Reverb!