Some theory suggestions please.

[xtp]

Hi,

I am working on a tune atm that has a core riff [wip] of

Bb13, Cm [triad] , A diminished 7, Ab7b5, Bb13

the melody, solo work appears strongly based around the G natural minor scale [aeolian mode].

I do everything by ear and am not strong on theory and have no formal music education. But I get inquisitive sometimes as to the relationships of stuff I hear in my head.

Can anyone offer some suggestions to me as to why Gm seems to be strong sounding with this progression.

Other than because the chords have some notes from Gminor in them.

I hear G as the tonic or resolving note.



Cheers Shaun.

[Nystul]

This is way out of my league. But, I rearranged the spelling of your chords in a way that I think might hint at their functions in a G minor context:

First chord: G, Bb, D, Ab
Second chord: C, Eb, G
Third chord: A, C, Eb, F#
Fourth chord: D, F#, Ab, C
Fifth chord: G, Bb, D, Ab

[llatham]

This is way out of my league. But, I rearranged the spelling of your chords in a way that I think might hint at their functions in a G minor context:

First chord: G, Bb, D, Ab

Or G minor with a b9. Least "G minorish" of the batch.

Second chord: C, Eb, G

iv in G minor, no problems there.

Third chord: A, C, Eb, F#

or better, F# A C Eb, thus viio7 of G - the leading tone diminished 7th chord typically used in G minor - hence the strongest "suggester" that the key is G minor (especially following the C minor chord).

Fourth chord: D, F#, Ab, C

Same thing - D is the V of G minor, in this case though, a V7b5 - a D7 with a flatted 5th - not common, but in use since the Romantic period. In many ways, the 5th is the "least important" note in a V7 chord, and this one actually creates a structure called a "French Augmented 6" (which is same as a 7(#11) with omitted notes) and the principle of "substitution" can be (and is often( used where a chord a tritone away (Ab in this case) is used to substitute for the dominant chord (D in this example).

Fifth chord: G, Bb, D, Ab

Same problem as before with the Ab - however, following the D chord with the b5, this would have the sound of a i chord (G minor) with a tone being held over from the previous chord.

However, I should point out, that while treating the chords as if they coming from G minor will show you the relationship to the scale, playing the Bb13 with a Bb bass is going to sound very "Bb-y" rather than "G minor-y".

However, we should note that Eb Major is Bb Mixolydian, and G Phrygian.

I think what you're actually doing is playing Eb major, or Eb Lydian, and sort of avoiding the A where it clashes with the Ab in the Bb13 chord and Ab7b5 (Ab7(#11)) chord. Or you might even be mixing two modes, such as Eb Lydian and Eb Major, or G minor (= Eb lydian) and G Phrygian (=Eb Major).

HTH,
Steve

[someone called simon]

those 3 middle chords will want to resolve to Gm. the first 2 alone suggest Gm. The 3rd is a jazzier subsitition for D7, which is the dominant of Gm. Play D7 instead of Ab7b5 and you will hear how it wants to go to Gm. Ab7b5 has 3 of the same notes as D7 (F# C, D) and one note dropped a semitine (A to Ab).

So its like your first and last chord, which I guess are the key, are just bluesier/jazzier version of Bb (which is the relative major of Gm). The flattened 7th you have in there isn't that odd, any number of folky bluesy songs will use the flattened seventh in the tonic. When you go the 3rd chord in your sequence that flattened seventh is sharpened to an A natural, putting that with the next chord is definitely leading it in the direction of Gm. But if you resolve it to your Bb13, you just shift back into that jazzy/bluesy feel instead.

[xtp]

Hi, thanks to everyones replies and thoughts on this, I appreciate it.

My lack of understanding of what I hear frustrates me at times. I put chord sequences together because of how they sound [good to my ears] without any formal knowledge of compostional theory.

@steve. The 13th chord I play is an inversion the Ab is in the bass. It is Ab,D,G,Bb,Ab [lowest to highest]

All other chords the root note is in the bass.

I also forgot to mention while I seem to be using Gminor I am not playing the f note. I guess this would help avoid clashes with the f#.

cheers all

[someone called simon]

My lack of understanding of what I hear frustrates me at times. I put chord sequences together because of how they sound [good to my ears] without any formal knowledge of compostional theory.

Usually the best way. Theory is best used after the ideas have come, not to get the ideas IMHO. generally speaking...

[llatham]

My lack of understanding of what I hear frustrates me at times. I put chord sequences together because of how they sound [good to my ears] without any formal knowledge of compostional theory.

Ears are always your best tools. The only unfortunate thing is sometimes our ears (and minds) are only exposed to a limited palette of styles, and we sometimes never encounter (or we disregard) influences from other styles.

One of the nice things about theory is that it often opens your mind (and consequently your ears) to things you might not otherwise consider.

@steve. The 13th chord I play is an inversion the Ab is in the bass. It is Ab,D,G,Bb,Ab [lowest to highest]

It's an AbM9(#11) then. Still it's basically a Gm chord with some Ab notes attached to it

I also forgot to mention while I seem to be using Gminor I am not playing the f note. I guess this would help avoid clashes with the f#.

This is quite common.

Best,
Steve