Impressed with Cubase- am I crazy? What impresses you?

[koolkeys]

koolkeys, you bought it, or a just thinking about it? If so, why?

To me, the idea of learning yet another piece of software gives me headaches; I'd have to have pretty strong motivation to do so, not a big fan of software, or computers as a whole, to begin with. One of those motivation would be to replace the three piece of music related software I'm currently using by a single one. I'm using Reaper, Live Lite and Guitar Pro; not crazy about all the back and forthing, so I have researched a bit to see if Cubase 5 would do. It wouldn't, so I ain't moving.

So, what can motivate somebody enough to go through all the hassle of getting a new host?

Well, as I explained in the post right before this one, the workflow in Cubase is not completely new to me. So I'm not exactly learning a new host. I do have a history as an actual Cubase owner, plus the usage explained in this thread.

But there are many reasons to switch to a new host. It's not always about features. Sometimes it's about refinement of the host, how much the host gets in the way, how well placed everything is, and other workflow issues. Some hosts just throw features on top of other features and keep piling on without thinking through the best way to add them. I think Cubase has done a great job of adding features without screwing up how everything works.

I use multiple hosts as it is. Not necessarily because one does anything the others don't do. But I just work differently based on what I'm doing, what kind of music I'm making, and what kind of mood I'm in. Sometimes that fresh coat of paint can help creativity. YMMV.

Brent

[koolkeys]

We all have our special needs and if you need Cubase, you need Cubase but I doubt you really need Cubase as much as you want Cubase.

I don't need any host I have. I COULD get things done in every one and come out with similar results. But some hosts have different features that make certain tasks easier or more fun. I am really impressed with a couple of things in Cubase that are for that very purpose.

That's good too just realize that it's not going to make your music any better. The plugs are good but not that good and there is always the dongle to consider.

Of course not. I addressed this above. No host will make my music better, and I'm not naive enough to think so.

I have enough plugins, so I don't really need the Cubase plugins. I don't buy a host based on it's plugins. If I find a gem or two, then great. Loopmash looks kind of cool though.

The dongle won't bother me. I already have multiple dongles, including a Syncrosoft one.

It's going to cause a few headaches and support problems and you'll get on the SX upgrade go-round where they never fix old problems when they can release a paid upgrade. My 2c.

I buy a host based on what it does, and with the knowledge that there are going to be some bugs. Obviously, there is no Cubase demo. So I'm going on the time I have spent with various versions, and put a LOT of weight on the opinions of the half dozen or so people that I've talked to this past couple of weeks. I've talked to people who use Cubase, people who are considering Cubase, and people who have used it in the past and decided to switch away from it. I searched for honest, no BS opinions, and I got a lot of information.

Ok, be back in around an hour. Hopefully I didn't miss anything major, but I'll check again when I'm back.

Brent

[tomg]

Look, jump if you want to. If I was going to jump on something, I'd just do it and not ask people on KVR for opinions but you did so...

I left SX a long time ago because it crashed at the first sign of an inspired track. It runs ok on my newer machines but I'm never going back because I don't have to. With what you have, you don't need it but go ahead, it's your money to waste. There's no law against spending money on things you don't need. 2c more.

[RawTheory]

Workflow is everything. If the man gets better workflow from Cubase 5 then its a change for the better.

[ford442]

i love cubase.. i even used the old Cubase VST as i recall.. i have never used a host that i liked more.. i do primarily MIDI arranged music and i find CS4 to be my perfect solution at the moment.. cubase 5 sounds like it has some good features, but i am on a pretty tight budget so i will wait a couple years before i move on from version 4 i believe..

[koolkeys]

Look, jump if you want to. If I was going to jump on something, I'd just do it and not ask people on KVR for opinions but you did so...

So what if I ask opinions? I worded the topic badly perhaps. This thread is just a curious one to see why other people jumped. Nothing wrong with that. It's a discussion forum, and people ask for opinions. Why do people always have to say things like that. Or the whole "I don't spend time here because I'm too busy making music" comments. Who cares.

Sorry, but I just don't see why it's such a big deal that I asked.

I left SX a long time ago because it crashed at the first sign of an inspired track. It runs ok on my newer machines but I'm never going back because I don't have to. With what you have, you don't need it but go ahead, it's your money to waste. There's no law against spending money on things you don't need. 2c more.

See, what's the problem here? Is it just that you don't like Cubase and because you don't like it, everyone who switches to it is just wasting their money? Like there is no good reason to switch?

I said above that I don't HAVE to switch. Most people who switch hosts don't have to. But I have good reasons for wanting to. For me and many others, it's not wasting money.

I'm not interested in agendas. I'm asking opinions out of my own curiosity. Maybe to find something that I may not have seen in the dozens of places I researched. Maybe to get a different perspective, or whatever.

People switch hosts all the time, and rarely it's out of need. Doesn't mean it's a waste of money for them.

Sorry, I'm a bit cranky tonight from being sick all day. But I just don't get it.

Brent

[koolkeys]

Workflow is everything. If the man gets better workflow from Cubase 5 then its a change for the better.

Absolutely!

Heck, even if it were ONLY for VST Expression alone, it would be worth considering for me. Well, maybe not that alone. But it's a pretty big deal, IMO.

Brent

[koolkeys]

Ok, I changed the title of this thread since it was a bad choice of words. I'm not looking for approvals, but I'm curious about your opinions and what might have made you switch, or whatever.

Brent

[fandango]

I ordered Cubase 5 last week (have to wait a couple of weeks as the place is out of Educational boxes).

Good things.

1. I think it's VST Expression that's kinda sold it for me. I picked up Overture a couple of years back, as it was capable of hiding all those piano roll nasties that come up as a result of using keyswitch/CC-heavy sample libraries. Instead of reams of CC data, you could just draw a crescendo symbol and have the MIDI done in the background. Or put in "fff" to set the velocity or keyswitch. I was very dissapointed in Cubase 4, as it had a rather limited implementation of these concepts. However in Cubase 5 they seem to have come up with the goods. I sense that it will be years, if ever, that this appears in SONAR, as their notation engine needs an entire overhaul.

2. MIDI functionality (read NOT MIDI editing, which I'll mention in a bit). Arps that actually work properly, manipulation tools, MIDI logic, it really is candy-land in for MIDI users in Cubase.

3. Robustness. I found Cubase 4 to be particularly solid and efficient. There's an old comic stereotype in the UK about German efficiency, but I think there's truth to it. I sense that Steinberg probably think a lot about new features in the design stage before adding them in. Hence everything feels quite robust.

4. Automation. I had a lot of problems with SONAR (since v4) with automation Envelopes. Sometimes I couldn't copy nodes for seemingly random reasons. Sometimes I couldn't cut or copy envelopes correctly. Sometimes deleting a node would delete one or 2 on either side that were a measure away. I like the seperation into lanes that Cubase has.

Bad things.

1. I am NOT looking forward to the piano roll. imho, it has become severely dated given new ideas about functionality introduced by newcomes like FL Studio, eXT, SONAR and (who'da thunk it) Reaper. It's still based on the old "pick your tool" paradigm, rather than letting one tool do everything via a selection of modifiers. In Cubase, you can basically switch between a pen and a select tool. You have to go to the little mini toolbox popup or toggle between tools. Also, the shadows under the MIDI notes make me feel that things are creeping over quantize limits.

2. The GUI. So shoot me, I don't like it. I get a wave of depression every time that stormy teal interface opens up.

3. No VST note names. Using RMIV (or any decent drum VST) is going to SUCK. I've become very reliant on making custom drum maps that don't follow GM norms. It's nice to have the drum editor just read the pad names from the VST.

However... the best thing is, if it doesn't work out (as Cubase 4 didn't), I can sell it. But I feel quite confident about 5 and I'm really looking forward to it.

[bduffy]

Hey fandango: I'm curious about 1. How does Sonar's tool selection differ from the other hosts? I thought you have to at least hit a key or something to change/modify the cursor tool, no?

[Muziksculp]

I recently purchased Cubase 5. Here are some of the reasons I chose "Cubase 5" over other DAWs :

* Great editing features, and selection of effects plug-ins for both (midi and audio)
* Great workflow features.
* Relatively easy to learn compared to other DAWs, and logically designed.
* Great GUI design.
* Mac and PC compatible.
* Quite a popular DAW worldwide, it has been around for over 25 years (making it a quite mature DAW).
* Yamaha's purchase of Steinberg made me even more confident, and excited about the future developments, and features both Cubase/Nuendo will offer. I'm sure it will have even more unique features in future updates/upgrades.
* Yamaha/Steinberg's HW integration philosophy makes lots of sense to me.
* Great customer service & support.
* The availability of Cubase 4/5 tutorials in many music magazines, and Steinberg, plus third-party produced video tutorials.
* Having the option of upgrading to Nuendo if I needed access to audio-post features, would be relatively an easy transition since both Nuendo and Cubase are very similar in structure, and share the same audio engine.

* Finally ...

I think if Yamaha/Steinberg can further improve the quality of some of the included VST plug-ins, and VST instruments to be on the same level or very close to high-end 3rd party VSTs (Well... they have the technology), i.e. offer an even larger, and very high-quality Halion based sample library content, add some additional unique and high-quality VST synths that offer i.e. (Vector/FM/Granular/Physical Modeling..etc.) Synthesis, and bundle "Wavelab" (Mac & PC version) along with Cubase/Nuendo, or even better... integrate it into Cubase/Nuendo, and offer this at a very attractive price point, I think they will have a recipe for even more success in the music DAW business.

[fandango]

bduffy: Hiya. Basically, you can customise how each tool works, so I've basically set up the Draw tool to cover everything so I don't need the others. It's set up rather like FL Studio, in fact.

In general, you have your hand hovering over Ctrl/Alt/Shift. Using custom combinations you can switch between any tool functionality you like, but you stick with the same tool so you're not hunting for an icon, or needing to open a context menu to pick a new tool etc.

Perhaps some people work faster with other methods, but the FL/Sonar/eXT system just feels very efficient to me and it would be awesome to have that in Cubase. The only modifier I'm aware of is "Alt" to switch between the Select and Draw tool.

Here's the PRV configuration tool from Sonar. (ignore the cyan circles, this image was a help for someone @ Cakewalk forums)

[tomg]

Sorry, but I just don't see why it's such a big deal that I asked.

I'm not interested in agendas. I'm asking opinions out of my own curiosity.


Brent

It's not a big deal that you asked. It's not a big deal that I answered. I don't have an agenda. I've owned Cubase since 1986-7 ?? (when ever it was) and I still have two PC versions. Frankly, I don't care what anyone uses. I'm the last guy in the world to lecture anyone on buying sequencing software but you asked for opinions and that's what I though you wanted.

I don't know the secret wink that indicates that you just want positive opinions. If that's what you want then ask for just positive opinions. FTR I hope you enjoy it. I hope that I'm wrong and I hope that you think it's the best piece of musical software you've ever bought but it's still my opinion that you'll be wasting your money on something you don't need. So shoot me.

FTR I waste money on stuff I don't need all the time.

[koolkeys]

I don't want only positive opinions. I just felt your posts sounded like you were assuming that I was somehow didn't have any good reasons for switching. I was very possibly wrong in my own assumptions about your posts.

I think it's one of those internet language barrier things. I took your posts in a more negative tone, and I think your posts may have been partially based on my not explaining myself well enough.

No harm done, and my apologies if I overreacted at all.

And in my wife's opinion, everything musical that I buy is a waste of money!

Brent

[tomg]

No harm done, and my apologies if I overreacted at all.

And in my wife's opinion, everything musical that I buy is a waste of money!

Brent

If you were close enough to me to be an in the flesh buddy, I'd probably tell you to your face that you were flushing cash and then drive you to the software shop so you could get it now.