KVR Audio

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:51 am

Its makes alot to sense. This is what I thought they should have done along time ago. Keep the rock solid stability of Reason without 'diluting' its original concept. But then add a separate Audio recorder and VSTi player that integrates well for those that want one. Reason is an instrument not a DAW. Propellerhead haven't released a new product in years, so it should be good for the company.

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:22 am

Propellerheads developer comments on the rumours that are circulating.

"There has been some rumors floating about the web about the Producers Conferences we will be having around the world on saturday and what we might do or not do... Well, the only way to find out is to actually go to the conference. They are always greatly appreciated so either way you won't lose anything by going.

And since the TPC in Sweden will be at the Propellerheads Headquarters you will get the chance to check out parts of the office and most likely quite a few propellerheads will be there, including me."
http://www.propellerheads.se/company/cr ... 4&from=rss

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:40 am

Doesn't say it will be a full host does it? It could just be a multitrack audio recorder/editor with at most VST fx but no midi - maybe a sort of cross between Recycle and early Acid.

If it does have midi and instruments support I hope they don't go for a FL/Orion type pattern based approach but build on the sort of linear approach the Reason sequencer already does well.

Karmacomposer · Post by **Karmacomposer** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:30 pm

RawTheory wrote:It not realistic, but it's not impossible (according to my "know nothing" about programing, idealistic mind.) It seems like someone (in like, 50 years from now lol) could come up with an ingenius way of coding so that even if a plugin was buggy, that somehow, only the buggy plugin failed and they made it disappear out of the project in a saved state on another page, where it could be dealt with or avoided.

In most programming languages, there is a little known catch all for most kinds of erroneous crashing:

ON ERROR RESUME NEXT

Some have ON ERR RESUME and other variations, but its all the same - no matter what the error code is, simply keep going.

Any time I have made an app, I use this command extensively. You know what, my stuff does not crash. Of course, I mostly create database utilities and web-based software.

My guess is that Propellerheads will make a Pro-Tools-like DAW that exclusively uses Reason and locks other company's products out.

Mike

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:52 pm

Karmacomposer wrote:In most programming languages, there is a little known catch all for most kinds of erroneous crashing:

ON ERROR RESUME NEXT

'most programming languages', eh? interesting. you know, you should suggest that Steinberg add that line into the VST SDK, then no plugin will ever crash again.

bpoteat · Post by **bpoteat** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:03 pm

Karmacomposer wrote:
RawTheory wrote:It not realistic, but it's not impossible (according to my "know nothing" about programing, idealistic mind.) It seems like someone (in like, 50 years from now lol) could come up with an ingenius way of coding so that even if a plugin was buggy, that somehow, only the buggy plugin failed and they made it disappear out of the project in a saved state on another page, where it could be dealt with or avoided.
In most programming languages, there is a little known catch all for most kinds of erroneous crashing:

ON ERROR RESUME NEXT

Some have ON ERR RESUME and other variations, but its all the same - no matter what the error code is, simply keep going.

Any time I have made an app, I use this command extensively. You know what, my stuff does not crash. Of course, I mostly create database utilities and web-based software.

VST programming is much more complicated than that and there are a number of reasons why crashes happen. Exception handling is not little known - it's one of the most basic of programming concepts.

Your ON ERR RESUME NEXT is a VISUAL BASIC & VBScript language exception handling construct that works because VB & VBScript never have direct access to memory. Low level programming is a bit more complex. A good VST has to be very fast. Anything a host did to create a wrapper around them would slow them down, much like the apps that run VB & VBScript code do. You would be doing lots of memory copying and interpreting to ensure that the VST only copied into memory that it absolutely had to. No good.

Secondly, but related, is that the host must give a VST that produces any output a big chunk of memory for writing. It pretty much just gives them a memory address and tells them (or assumes they already know) how much they are supposed to have. That VST can do whatever it wants once it has control. It could even write into memory to which it isn't supposed to have access and there is nothing the host could do about it. Sure, the host could catch the exception and TRY to move on, but the current call-stack is very probably hosed, leaving the app in a questionable state from which it most likely could not recover even if it tried.

This isn't really VST-specific either. Any dynamically loaded library could have the same potential problems.

The best you can try for is a graceful crash but really that is very little condolence when it happens and isn't possible for every crash. Auto-saving helps a lot to make sure that you don't lose too much work, but there are still trade-offs for that. You never want to do intensive tasks like that when the user isn't expecting it.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents - and I've put in many years of work for that tiny bit of change.

Download SOphist · Post by **Download SOphist** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:20 pm

best smiley i could find:

keyman_sam · Post by **keyman_sam** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:47 pm

This is fantastic news! This could be the new Energy-XT3, instead developed by a more realistic dev!

I think of props as making the most rock solid, crash-free program out there. Their reason behaves like hardware!

This is what i think their daw would be : A very simplistic midi-focused, but audio supported DAW which integrates reason for those who have it.

i.e. say you have reason and this daw, you could add tracks that reference reason's instruments like NN-XT and pretend as if it were a VST while infact NNXT is running in th ebackground.

Then you would have a modular page where you can connect things and do shit with it...awesome!

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:53 pm

Karmacomposer wrote:
RawTheory wrote:It not realistic, but it's not impossible (according to my "know nothing" about programing, idealistic mind.) It seems like someone (in like, 50 years from now lol) could come up with an ingenius way of coding so that even if a plugin was buggy, that somehow, only the buggy plugin failed and they made it disappear out of the project in a saved state on another page, where it could be dealt with or avoided.
In most programming languages, there is a little known catch all for most kinds of erroneous crashing:

ON ERROR RESUME NEXT

Some have ON ERR RESUME and other variations, but its all the same - no matter what the error code is, simply keep going.

Any time I have made an app, I use this command extensively. You know what, my stuff does not crash. Of course, I mostly create database utilities and web-based software.

My guess is that Propellerheads will make a Pro-Tools-like DAW that exclusively uses Reason and locks other company's products out.

Mike

State and context be damned! applications must never crash!

pough · Post by **pough** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:28 pm

Stupid American Pig wrote:State and context be damned! applications must never crash!

Yeah, application error handling is quite a bit more complex, but I still get the impression that some do it better than others. Where some DAWs take strange returns from VSTs in stride (perhaps just flashing them the rabbit with a pancake on its head), Tracktion prefers to release the remainder of gas from its bowels with a soft poof and retreat to dev/null for a little well-deserved oblivion.

vinayk · Post by **vinayk** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:06 pm

they never actually mentioned what they are doing on that long drawn out blog huh?

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:23 pm

vinayk wrote:lol, then you'd have to buy, reason, recycle and redaw!

I'm betting it's called ReCord or ReCorder. Or, possibly ReDundant, depending on how many features they steal from other DAWs.

UncleAge · Post by **UncleAge** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:24 pm

Who knows what this might turn out to be but... I'd say the idea of the Prop's doing a DAW will get everyone's attention. The only other company that would peak my interest if I heard such a thing would be U-he.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:44 pm

I hear it will allow 8 bit recording and support DXi.......................

Download SOphist · Post by **Download SOphist** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:46 pm

cryophonik wrote:ReDundant

Record: New DAW from Propellerheads