Record: New DAW from Propellerheads

[koalaboy]

Also, let's ban VST plugins since they don't have full DAW functionality. All products must have everything. Mixing and matching is a sin.

Whilst you're normally sensible, this is a bit of a stretch. Whilst VST hosting would be nice, all that's really required is record to be a rewire host.

It wouldn't add any 'bloat' but would add a lot of flexibility.

That's not really what I was talking about, I was being sarcastic over the notion of VST plugin fans insisting that an application must have everything and there can be no componentizing... so what do they think VST plugins are if not little bits that you buy separately to stick in a host?

Anyway... there are lots of issues with VST plugins that make them poor candidates for Record/Reason integration. We can skip the the tired stability argument and consider another example:

The rack paradigm. All Reason devices have a fixed width, adhere to the same scale and live in the same 'physical' space. VST plugins on the other hand can look like anything. Some are effing heee-uge and have cables on the front(hello Arturia Moog V), some are absolutely tiny. Some have piano keys. Some are a picture of a drumkit, a grand piano or frets and strings. Some have a back side, some have just a front. None of them have the typical CV and audio ports found on Reason devices, obviously. The rack would look like crap on both the back (where most VST plugs would just have a blank surface, I guess) and the front. The only way to get them into a Propellerhead rack would be to have some sort of generic VST rack units with a button that would open the panel in a floating window or whatever. To make a long story short, it would no longer be Record/Reason but more of a frankenstein's monster that would make a ReWire setup look like heaven.

I'll grant you all of the above.

Just one question, which I can't understand. Why not a ReWire Master, if a ReWire Slave is acceptable ?

It would solve the majority of outstanding requirements, be no less stable than the the current ReWire ability (hopefully more stable, as record would be in charge) and be sticking with known technology. It wouldn't break the rack paradigm any more than record being a ReWire Slave (a DAW in a window ?).

I know the answer will likely be "... but then we couldn't save everything in one file" or suchlike, but it really is a gaping hole with little justification for not being present.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[aMUSEd]

Just one question, which I can't understand. Why not a ReWire Master, if a ReWire Slave is acceptable ?

It would solve the majority of outstanding requirements, be no less stable than the the current ReWire ability (hopefully more stable, as record would be in charge) and be sticking with known technology. It wouldn't break the rack paradigm any more than record being a ReWire Slave (a DAW in a window ?).

I know the answer will likely be "... but then we couldn't save everything in one file" or suchlike, but it really is a gaping hole with little justification for not being present.

I wondered about that too. However, since Rewire would just route in the audio from another app anyway, there are ways of getting round that (e.g. Reaper's ReRoute driver or some other audio cable type app - or do what I do and have one whole system dedicated to being a plugin host and the other my mastering/audio DAW and route the audio from the plugin host to the DAW that way)

[christianmusicmaker]

Weird.

If it's basically Garage Band (My First DAW) then why bother with the modelled SSL stuff? And all the fairly elaborate-looking insert/send stuff?

Talk about answering a question nobody asked...

Very odd yes. Especially considering the asking price.

[DRS]

Sorry if this has been posted already. It's Gerry from the Props:

[blank/diod]

Just one question, which I can't understand. Why not a ReWire Master, if a ReWire Slave is acceptable ?

I honestly don't know. Never asked, never wondered, probably some technical issue that may or may not make sense to non-developers. But you can probably get an answer on the Record beta forum...

[dan_s]

i dont think Reason is for beginners. From my own personal use, the countless professionals who use it and the fact that everyone who critizes Reason as being amateur, limiting, etc, DOESNT KNOW how to use it, brings my to the obvious answer..

I know very well how to use it. I just don't like being given a limited number of tubes of color to paint a picture. And I'd bet that the pros who use it also use other stuff to get "their" sound. There is no way in hell that Reason is a 100%, "in the box" pro solution no matter what anyone says.

I had mentioned earlier in the thread that I never understood Reason to be a DAW. That being so, it is definately used in conjunction with other tools. As you can see, I never mentioned it being a 100% solution nor did i say it CAN NOT be.

again, if you have seen many of the articles with artists discussing reason, they often praise the closed design style as well as that they use it in conjunction with other programs.

also, i believe there are countless professional painters who have used a limited number of tubes of color to make some peectures.

i dont see why there is so much talk about "why I dont use reason" there is like 4 billion programs you can chose to work with digital audio. I dont spend my time complaining about the ones I dont use. Thats why I believe people who talk this way don't understand reason and are jealous. i've said previously, i demoed reasona long time ago and i couldn't figure it out, but it looked so cool. eventually i tried again and it clicked. we all can't use every program,pick what you like and shaddup.

[nuffink]

Just one question, which I can't understand. Why not a ReWire Master, if a ReWire Slave is acceptable ?

I honestly don't know. Never asked, never wondered, probably some technical issue that may or may not make sense to non-developers. But you can probably get an answer on the Record beta forum...

Rewire masters imply support for 3rd party code, something Propellerheads have studiously avoided (see also VST integration).

[eduardo_b]

So the new product isn't a DAW but a recording module that can also be accessed from within Reason?

[blank/diod]

Weird.

If it's basically Garage Band (My First DAW) then why bother with the modelled SSL stuff? And all the fairly elaborate-looking insert/send stuff?

Talk about answering a question nobody asked...

Very odd yes. Especially considering the asking price.

Are these rhetorical questions or are you actually wondering?

As for "question nobody asked", yeah nobody asked for audio recording integrated with Reason. Except maybe 2 trillion people over the last 8 or so years.

As for "why SSL?". Well, the trick here was to make something that will work both as a simple, straightforward recording studio for non Reason users, as well as a product that brings additional value for Reason users. Since Reason lacked a big mixer with bells and whistles like advanced EQ, per-channel comp with sidechaining etc it was a no-brainer that an advanced mixer should be one of the features. The Record mixer might be overkill for Garageband type beginners, but the alternative was to design two different mixers which would make everything more complicated and expensive on the development end of things, limit document portability and what not. It's designed along the same "easy but not simple" principles as Reason, so that it works on two levels... advanced users can flip the rack around and go crazy with CV and audio routing, beginners and lazy users can just hit record and enjoy a hassle-free and intuitive recording, just like they can load up ready-made Combi patches in Reason without any prior knowledge about building sounds, tweaking, routing etc.

[skipkent]

It's a DAW, self contained, not of the VST host variety.

[DRS]

Record In-Depth Preview at CMD:

Some nice details there that are not available at the Prop's website:

Check it here

[koalaboy]

Just one question, which I can't understand. Why not a ReWire Master, if a ReWire Slave is acceptable ?

I honestly don't know. Never asked, never wondered, probably some technical issue that may or may not make sense to non-developers. But you can probably get an answer on the Record beta forum...

Rewire masters imply support for 3rd party code, something Propellerheads have studiously avoided (see also VST integration).

No more so than ReWire Slave. It's a defined code interface, of which one side always has to be 3rd party code. There's more chance of them sandboxing 3rd party code if they're the host, than if they're being hosted.

[koalaboy]

Just one question, which I can't understand. Why not a ReWire Master, if a ReWire Slave is acceptable ?

I honestly don't know. Never asked, never wondered, probably some technical issue that may or may not make sense to non-developers. But you can probably get an answer on the Record beta forum...

Fair enough. I may well ask that, once I get home.

[nuffink]

Just one question, which I can't understand. Why not a ReWire Master, if a ReWire Slave is acceptable ?

I honestly don't know. Never asked, never wondered, probably some technical issue that may or may not make sense to non-developers. But you can probably get an answer on the Record beta forum...

Rewire masters imply support for 3rd party code, something Propellerheads have studiously avoided (see also VST integration).

No more so than ReWire Slave. It's a defined code interface, of which one side always has to be 3rd party code. There's more chance of them sandboxing 3rd party code if they're the host, than if they're being hosted.

You misunderstand the nature of support. It looks like this...

"I LOADED THIS GREAT PLUGIN CALLED SNOTBOXER IN YOUR HOST REWIRED IN VIA BABY A iLLOGIC. IT'S NOT WORKING AND THE DEVELOPERS OF SNOTBOXER AND BABY A iLLOGIC SAY IT'S YOUR FAULT. I WANT IT FIXED NOW. I WANT MY MONEY BACK. I'M CALLING MY MP."

You then have to support this nightmare, where the code is out of your control. This isn't the case if you write only slaves.