The first preset and its variation (which occurs when you click the botton on the right and the light changes from red to green (or viceversa, don't remember) are those used by Jarre in Oxygene (part 2 and part 6), so they're not cheesy, they're super classicBarf wrote:Wow that Rhytmus synth, finally a vst that does the classic cheesy organ drumbox rhythms!
That's sad. I know nothing about Poland, but why is it so hard? In today's world is it not just a matter of putting up a website and seeding forums like this with a demo? Paypal? Share-it? I would understand if they were manufacturing gear, but software distribution is another animal... Here in the U.S. it's probably too easy to start a business. I suspect the "sweet spot" is somewhere between the two.D N A wrote:great analog pack. to be honest it supposed to be commercial, an author fixed a number of bugs to make his plugins more polished but looks like in Poland it's not an easiest task to start your own businessI know something about it too...
I'm afraid it's the same shite as here (Russia): one has to complete a zillion forms and sign a quadrillion papers at different offices just to get the business registered. And then the inland revenue which doesn't care whether you're selling software or raw diamonds, them sick f*cks (sorry, mates, but I suspect most here from the former eastern Block shall understand)zerocrossing wrote:That's sad. I know nothing about Poland, but why is it so hard? In today's world is it not just a matter of putting up a website and seeding forums like this with a demo? Paypal? Share-it? I would understand if they were manufacturing gear, but software distribution is another animal... Here in the U.S. it's probably too easy to start a business. I suspect the "sweet spot" is somewhere between the two.D N A wrote:great analog pack. to be honest it supposed to be commercial, an author fixed a number of bugs to make his plugins more polished but looks like in Poland it's not an easiest task to start your own business
I can tell you this: the sweet spot is certainly not here in Italy... It's burocratic hell setting anything up, and then it's killed in no time by taxes...zerocrossing wrote: I suspect the "sweet spot" is somewhere between the two.
Well, I think that Elektrostudio, 2-3 years ago, had no idea about services such as share-it and I guess they (he) tried to create their own shop / website.zerocrossing wrote: That's sad. I know nothing about Poland, but why is it so hard? In today's world is it not just a matter of putting up a website and seeding forums like this with a demo? Paypal? Share-it? I would understand if they were manufacturing gear, but software distribution is another animal... Here in the U.S. it's probably too easy to start a business. I suspect the "sweet spot" is somewhere between the two.
Since now, every month you need to pay some taxes. The primary tax is Polish Social Security (ZUS) Tax - which 2-3 years ago was about 750 zl (if you run one-person business) -> it's about 230 $ (1 polish zloty = 3,3 $). It seems not much from western european perspective but if you imagine that an average salary in Poland is like 2000 zl which is like 600 $ (1 zl = 3.3 $) then it's getting bigger . Especially if you'll add some typical costs like paying for hosting, paying for domain, paying for some nice stats. (230 $ x 12) + (10 $ (hosting cost) x 12) + 20 $ (domain with private infos) means yearly 2900 $. 2900 $ / 600 $ (average salary in poland) means about 5 months of work... "
), and for the first hmm 2 years you pay just like 200 zl tax instead of 750 zl. But still there's a problem. Polish law tax is very complicated. When we joined European Union in 2004 , one of the biggest concerns was complicated Tax Law drawing away big companies from investing in Poland. We have so many favourable taxes that it's just hard to navigate, even for big companies. But don't think that our favourable taxes favour you somehow. It's simply a counter for ridiculous other taxes When asked about differences, many responded: "one day business registered". Sorry if my english is not good enough to be understood, but there's a mistake. I do not critisize these excellent synths (of course not and I am really happy to get them for free), but the very restrictive advice from SampleScience : there are many other free vsti that are very good and give everybody the chance to make music for nothing... And I am not a dev, but (see my site and you probably will understand) a guy who appreciates the work of all the good devs around, and tries modestly to promote their work by putting it on my site... A big difference... When I told that Elektrostudio was not intended to be free, I meant that the project was done with this goal in mind, which is probably not the same job... The fact that these gems are free is an accident... And I think that this excellent work, as it is given for free because of problems, should be sold, if we can help the guy to realize his previous commercial project... And the discussion proves it.Do I sense some jealousy? Why do you say it's bad for other Freeware Developers? These are VSTis that everyone can only benefit from. Whether your a Developer, User, Sound-Designer, etc. It just goes to show that other Developers developing with SE need to step their Game up. That should only give you motivation to create Bigger and Better things. That would be a good thing by the way. And remember don't be a Hater be an Appreciator
Hi Mac! Mr . Freeware user himself. Now WTF took you so long to enter this scene?Mac of BIOnighT wrote:OK, but what if he just set up a donation system via paypal, would that still create problems?
Well, you aren't selling anything + there are thousands of polish websites with donate me button BUT now you can actually see what im talking aboutMac of BIOnighT wrote:OK, but what if he just set up a donation system via paypal, would that still create problems?
. Even such simple thing is unclear. Most ppl won't pay any taxes from paypal donations not because they don't want to but because of being scared that it can draw bigger problems on them 
As usually in Poland, there are some tax rules and almost every rule has an exception For example there's some income that's free from paying tax - last time it was something like 5000 zl (~ 1500 $) for 5 years. I would say that donating is pretty safe. I would donate that guy too, because those plugins seems to be free ... by accident.I understand now.Burnie wrote:Sorry if my english is not good enough to be understood, but there's a mistake. I do not critisize these excellent synths (of course not and I am really happy to get them for free), but the very restrictive advice from SampleScience : there are many other free vsti that are very good and give everybody the chance to make music for nothing... And I am not a dev, but (see my site and you probably will understand) a guy who appreciates the work of all the good devs around, and tries modestly to promote their work by putting it on my site... A big difference... When I told that Elektrostudio was not intended to be free, I meant that the project was done with this goal in mind, which is probably not the same job... The fact that these gems are free is an accident... And I think that this excellent work, as it is given for free because of problems, should be sold, if we can help the guy to realize his previous commercial project... And the discussion proves it.Do I sense some jealousy? Why do you say it's bad for other Freeware Developers? These are VSTis that everyone can only benefit from. Whether your a Developer, User, Sound-Designer, etc. It just goes to show that other Developers developing with SE need to step their Game up. That should only give you motivation to create Bigger and Better things. That would be a good thing by the way. And remember don't be a Hater be an Appreciator
Am I clearer ? Enthusiasm about these synths does not make me blind... These synths are a bargain for us, not for the man who made them...
well said, good sirBurnie wrote:Sorry if my english is not good enough to be understood, but there's a mistake. I do not critisize these excellent synths (of course not and I am really happy to get them for free), but the very restrictive advice from SampleScience : there are many other free vsti that are very good and give everybody the chance to make music for nothing... And I am not a dev, but (see my site and you probably will understand) a guy who appreciates the work of all the good devs around, and tries modestly to promote their work by putting it on my site... A big difference... When I told that Elektrostudio was not intended to be free, I meant that the project was done with this goal in mind, which is probably not the same job... The fact that these gems are free is an accident... And I think that this excellent work, as it is given for free because of problems, should be sold, if we can help the guy to realize his previous commercial project... And the discussion proves it.Do I sense some jealousy? Why do you say it's bad for other Freeware Developers? These are VSTis that everyone can only benefit from. Whether your a Developer, User, Sound-Designer, etc. It just goes to show that other Developers developing with SE need to step their Game up. That should only give you motivation to create Bigger and Better things. That would be a good thing by the way. And remember don't be a Hater be an Appreciator
Am I clearer ? Enthusiasm about these synths does not make me blind... These synths are a bargain for us, not for the man who made them...
Can you explain how D16 made it then? Seeing they to are from Poland and started around the same time. They started as a really really small company also, but somehow their doing just fine and making $$$. Maybe they were rich to begin with though? Also does the fact that D16 use C++ and not SynthEdit like ElectroStudio did but with their own custom C++ made modules have anything to do with it either? Also the fact that SE made Plugs are PC Only might have something to do with it? Also there are quite a lot of people out there that are Biased against SE made Plugins no matter how Great they are. To them if it's made with SE it's Garbage period. Stupid and Ignorant people I tell you.D N A wrote:Well, I think that Elektrostudio, 2-3 years ago, had no idea about services such as share-it and I guess they (he) tried to create their own shop / website.zerocrossing wrote: That's sad. I know nothing about Poland, but why is it so hard? In today's world is it not just a matter of putting up a website and seeding forums like this with a demo? Paypal? Share-it? I would understand if they were manufacturing gear, but software distribution is another animal... Here in the U.S. it's probably too easy to start a business. I suspect the "sweet spot" is somewhere between the two.
So let's analyze typical Polish way 2-3 years ago.
1) You're hobbyist - you want just to sell few of your plugins for ridiculous low price like 5-10 $. You create your website and you want to use paypal because everyone recognises it and it can do this all dirty "transactions" work.
2) The first person bought your plugin. Hoooray. But it's the beginning of the nightmare.
Polish law is, as usually, pretty unclear. If you're selling things "constantly" via some "organised" system then you should register your business (in polish that's called "działalność gospodarcza"). 3-4 years ago It was like 2-3 weeks of wasted time, quadrillion forms, different offices etc. After those 2-3 weeks you finally have your own small one-person company
Also, in Poland you dont quit your job to create your own business. Well, of course im joking a little bit but the fact is that in Poland ppl were very cautious about it because in 2002-2003 we had ~ 20 % unemployment and this was only registered one. The real one was something about hmm 25-26 %. So for many ppl it was just too tough to just quit work and create your small business.
So, if you're a hobbyist vst plugin developer who wants to sell his own stuff more for fun actually then it's a little bit expensive hobby
But that's not the biggest problem. After all, I believe that with good product, you can make some profits even as hobbyist. There's another thing. 3 years ago Polish Revenue Board (im not sure if it's correct in english - I mean an "institution which controls all kind of taxes etc.") called "Urząd skarbowy" was very incompetent about internet sales. Actually many small companies selling their products on Allegro (Biggest auction system in Poland - similar to Ebay. Well , we have an ebay too but actually It was not good enough to beat Allegro) didn't pay taxes at all. Why ? Polish Revenue Board seem didnt care and the tax law was like 10 years behind... And about Paypal ? No one in Polish Revenue Board heard about it. Even now there are still some problems. Should I pay tax when the money appear on my company paypal account or maybe when i'll transfer those funds to my bank account in Poland ? Of course, as usually it's unclear, every expert tells something completely different.
I mean, the biggest flaw is that even if you really want to do the all tax related things correctly, it can lead you to bigger problems than if you've just said: "screw it, I won't pay any taxes at all, I won't create stupid company that'll have like 300 $ income
Luckily, during last 2 years, things changed a little bit. You can now, register a company in one day (didnt check it
So, if you add to this some other technical problems (it seems that online shop which supposed to sell elektrostudio stuff was hacked) then it's really easier to just release things as freeware.
ps. In 2004-2006 Polish people "invaded" England
Super classic cheesy then?Mac of BIOnighT wrote:The first preset and its variation (which occurs when you click the botton on the right and the light changes from red to green (or viceversa, don't remember) are those used by Jarre in Oxygene (part 2 and part 6), so they're not cheesy, they're super classicBarf wrote:Wow that Rhytmus synth, finally a vst that does the classic cheesy organ drumbox rhythms!
Barf wrote:Super classic cheesy then?Mac of BIOnighT wrote:The first preset and its variation (which occurs when you click the botton on the right and the light changes from red to green (or viceversa, don't remember) are those used by Jarre in Oxygene (part 2 and part 6), so they're not cheesy, they're super classicBarf wrote:Wow that Rhytmus synth, finally a vst that does the classic cheesy organ drumbox rhythms!
yeah, why not... but it sent shivers down my spine anyway!Well, there's PSP from Poland tooBFunKu wrote: Can you explain how D16 made it then? Seeing they to are from Poland and started around the same time. They started as a really really small company also, but somehow their doing just fine and making $$$. Maybe they were rich to begin with though?
Maybe I drawed that picture in too dark colours. It's hard to start as one person, especially if you have no savings but with 2-3 people it's not that bad. Maybe D16 was more motivated, more serious about starting plugin development company, who knows ? Submit: News, Plugins, Hosts & Apps | Advertise @ KVR | Developer Account | About KVR / Contact Us | Privacy Statement
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