SampleTank question...

[bennettvonbennett]

hey all - i'm hoping i can get an answer to this because its been bugging me for a while now...
i use ST 2.5 with my Macbook Pro as a portable workstation - sometimes i have an external keyboard and sometimes i do not... i have noticed that when i use the computer keyboard to input MIDI notes i don't get the same range of sounds/tone as when i hit the virtual keys in ST itself. i use both Ableton Live and Garageband and neither of them can record MIDI played on the virtual keyboard, this is fine but its frustrating to not be able to get the same full harmonic sound out of ST when playing it from my laptop keyboard.
my guess is that its a velocity issue of some kind - ? - and as such i should be able to set the 'default' velocity range somewhere on ST... or am i barking up the wrong tree?
help would be great... i love ST and use it all the time, i found that Kontact just has too steep of a learning curve for me right now, i prefer to just make music!
cheers,
bennett

[bennettvonbennett]

NO ONE can answer this question?? that's depressing.
bvb

[bennettvonbennett]

an example -
1) load Bar del Mar
2) using the on-screen built-in keyboard in Sampletank play a C3
3) now using an external keyboard play C3

on my machine the following differences occur:
1) Return to 70's Jazz and Soprano Sax play in both cases BUT with the on-screen keyboard they play an entire octave higher than they do on an the external keyboard.
2) Djembe Improuv 125 plays when using the on-screen keyboard BUT NOT when using the external keyboard.

Now try the same with C1

following differences occur:
1) when using the on-screen keyboard instruments 2-6 play (Congas, Shakers, Djembe, Return, Sax). instrument #1 Ocean Drum - does NOT play.
2) when using external keyboard instruments 1-3 play (Ocean Drum, Congas, Shakers), instruments 4-6 do NOT (Djembe, Return, Sax)

what gives??? this is beyond me. it seems to have something to do with the "Range" settings but it seems very odd that the 'standard' presets only seem to play properly when using the non-recordable on-screen keyboard...
can some one explain this?
thanks,
bvb

[madhatter_]

bvb -

You've already answered your own question, if you think about it:

(with) the on-screen keyboard they play an entire octave higher than they do on an the external keyboard.

I'd guess your external keyboard has less than the full complement of 88 keys. If so, you need to think about which of the possible full range of octaves your smaller keyboard is actually mapped to when compared to a full keyboard. If your keyboard is mapped to the higher end of the full range, then pressing what you believe to be C1 on your smaller keyboard will not be the same note as pressing what you would think to be C1 on the larger keyboard - in that example your smaller keyboard would be one or more octaves above where you would expect it to be.

With a smaller keyboard you should have an on-board control which allows you to transpose the octave range up or down so that your smaller keyboard can reach all of the possible notes. On my keyboard, the control is literally named "Octave Transpose". In your example above, you need to transpose your external keyboard up an octave to have it exactly match the on-screen keyboard.

Djembe Improuv 125 plays when using the on-screen keyboard BUT NOT when using the external keyboard.

Not all instruments are mapped to the full 88 key range because not all instruments are capable of producing over 7 octaves of (recognizable) sounds. Percussion soundsets are often mapped to only one or two octaves because of the limited range of sounds or "notes" available from the given instrument. As before, if your smaller external keyboard is set to the wrong octave range you'll be hitting the wrong keys - many of which may not actually be mapped to a sound. Again, transposing the external keyboard will put it into the correct range.

[bennettvonbennett]

hi madhatter - thanks for the reply - but i am aware of the octave transpose issue... i probably failed to make it completely clear but the results i am talking about are for playing EXACTLY the same notes - C1 for example (that is C in the 1st octave) - in addition, i confirmed that ST is seeing exactly the same notes by looking at the built-in keyboard while sounding the note on my external - it displays the note you are playing. if you try this you will see what i mean. and yes - of course not all sounds are mapped across the entire range of keys, what i am saying is that if you play a C note - in the 1st octave - C1 - on your external keyboard, and then play it on the built in keyboard you will get two different results... in the case you quoted the instrument (Djembe) will play when that note is sounded using the mouse with the on-screen keyboard, but NOT if you play the exact same note - C1 - on an external keyboard.
try it and you'll see what i mean.
let me know what you find - maybe its just some fluke in my version...
thanks for the response tho. at least someone is out there listening!

b

[DarkStar]

.. confirmed (sort of)

I've not tried Bar del Mar before, but

it looks like the problem revolves aorund the part Transpose settings (click the Range button)
-- Ocean Drum is transposed up 12 (C1 (36) on my keyboard highights C2 on the ST25 keyboard and triggers it
-- Return to 70's jazz is transposed down 24, (C3 (60) highlights C2 and triggers it,
-- Soprano Sax is transposed down 24, C3 (60) highlights C1 and triggers it

So there is a problematic difference between the ST25 mini-keyboard (does not use the Transpose) and notes from a MIDI keyboard (or MIDI clip) which are transposed

F2 on the mini keyboard triggers all three instruments here.

[madhatter_]

Boy, do I apologize for sounding off like Captain Freakin' Obvious...!!

But it sounded so, er... obvious... when I first read your post. I was even going to contradict you and say that Djembe Improuv 125 plays just fine in MY tank! Which it did when I tried myself just before I replied to you earlier today. Well... to tell the truth I couldn't actually find Bar Del Mar but I knew where Djembe Improuv 125 was and I needed to leave for work soon so I just loaded Djembe by itself. And yes it worked just fine, dammit!

So here's the really dumb part - and I have to laugh to keep from cryin' - as I went back to it just now (and I finally found Bar Del Mar, btw!) I realize that for some inexplicable reason my own ext keyboard was set down 1 octave all along and I never noticed it... (I usually don't pay much attention to the on-screen keyboard so I didn't notice it there either).

In any event, I confirm that what you've found is a real glitch in those particular instruments. And double-plus points to you for finding the one combi that has the most damaged instruments in it!

<CaptainObvious>You should send a report to SR so they can fix it</CaptainObvious>

[mamikodis]

Bennett, your seem to have the answer I've been looking for and has been really bugging me!

You said that you record MIDI by clicking directly on SampleTanks virtual keyboard. How do you do that?!

I use Pro Tools and I've tried everything! I've tried million times to record MIDI on an instrument-track by clicking on SampleTanks keyboard, but it just won't work!! do you know why?! it's driving me mad!! :S

Mamiko