I know this is a very complicated thing to try to emulate, but I was wondering if anybody had some insight on how to at least capture some of the character of a sitar using a synthesizer. Which route would you take to doing this. I know there is a lot going on, but I'd like to get some of that metallic, phasey far out sound. I there must be some pitch modulation going on, and some very distinct resonation. I was thinking a comb filter might be in order, or some very wild EQing. For the main plucked sound should I use normal VA techniques or some kind of karplus-strong setup? FM? Do you guys know of any convincing or interesting sitar-alike patches? I'm going to try doing it in SURGE.
THANKS!
The Sitar - synthesizing one.
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- Banned
- 6129 posts since 9 Oct, 2007 from an inharmonious society
I did this sitar sound using Zebra2.
It was done using 1 OSC, 1 VCFilter, 1 Comb filter.
No effects, compression, or eq.
The osc was set to quad mode with a hand drawn wave.
The comb filter was set to dissonant. Used a Global lfo too.
You have to use a comb filter to get a real sitar sound, but I did a 60's psychedelic type one with ZebraCM which you can dl from the kvr banks under Zebra. MCZebraCMset3. Those will load in Zebra2 or ZebraCM. Try the Zebra2 demo out, and use the comb filters in it to get a good sitar sound.
Here's the sitar wave.
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/1 ... c-wav.html
It was done using 1 OSC, 1 VCFilter, 1 Comb filter.
No effects, compression, or eq.
The osc was set to quad mode with a hand drawn wave.
The comb filter was set to dissonant. Used a Global lfo too.
You have to use a comb filter to get a real sitar sound, but I did a 60's psychedelic type one with ZebraCM which you can dl from the kvr banks under Zebra. MCZebraCMset3. Those will load in Zebra2 or ZebraCM. Try the Zebra2 demo out, and use the comb filters in it to get a good sitar sound.
Here's the sitar wave.
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/1 ... c-wav.html
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- KVRist
- 159 posts since 20 May, 2009
http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~zli3/sitarPaper.pdf
this might be a useful resource. Looks like someone did a paper on doing a physical model of the synthesis. Although you won't be able to implement it in your synth, it should probably cover, step-by-step, the relevant sonic attributes, which should give you a roadmap when it comes to your approach.
this might be a useful resource. Looks like someone did a paper on doing a physical model of the synthesis. Although you won't be able to implement it in your synth, it should probably cover, step-by-step, the relevant sonic attributes, which should give you a roadmap when it comes to your approach.
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- KVRist
- 142 posts since 7 Dec, 2008 from UK
Physical Modeling is the key here.
Ive made a very effective sounding one in Massive using 1 Comb Filter and the Noise oscilator, before now, will try post u the settings for it soon.
Ive made a very effective sounding one in Massive using 1 Comb Filter and the Noise oscilator, before now, will try post u the settings for it soon.
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
(if you want to be fancy and a simple filter envelope isn't sufficient..)
i'm likely to attempt this at some point in the next year. sampled sitars are awful.
i've heard one sitar model around.. forget who but it was also awful, basically a karplus-strong.
my main obstacle is information.. (had a quick look at pdf, thx for link) i can't model something when i don't know what it is, and all i really know is bar frets/resonator strings inside frets.. knowing how they are connected to the body, what their pitches are, the distance between strings et c. is necessary to correctly couple them and produce the twang.
sharp pictures and diagrams would really help.
actually, having a non-selfish, non-money driven culture that meets task and resource more effectively would also help.......................
...................if that makes any sense at all.................
"sorry rurik, we're all too implicated in this selfish cultural model to be of any use to each other and thus ourselves..."
i'm likely to attempt this at some point in the next year. sampled sitars are awful.
i've heard one sitar model around.. forget who but it was also awful, basically a karplus-strong.
my main obstacle is information.. (had a quick look at pdf, thx for link) i can't model something when i don't know what it is, and all i really know is bar frets/resonator strings inside frets.. knowing how they are connected to the body, what their pitches are, the distance between strings et c. is necessary to correctly couple them and produce the twang.
sharp pictures and diagrams would really help.
actually, having a non-selfish, non-money driven culture that meets task and resource more effectively would also help.......................
...................if that makes any sense at all.................
"sorry rurik, we're all too implicated in this selfish cultural model to be of any use to each other and thus ourselves..."
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240 - KVRAF
- 37262 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from Scottish Borders
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
well, i'd better stop complaining and get back to making more reasons for people to notice!
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- Banned
- 6129 posts since 9 Oct, 2007 from an inharmonious society
makes sense? no it doesn'txoxos wrote: actually, having a non-selfish, non-money driven culture that meets task and resource more effectively would also help.......................
...................if that makes any sense at all.................
"
...unless you consider the words, need and greed as having the same meaning.
Can't wait to hear your sitar model. I'm sure physical modeling of a sitar, takes great knowledge of pure math. Which I'm certain you have.
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
i know very little math beyond trigonometry due to erudition. logic and systems i am apparently sufficiently competent in, as my self-developed mass-spring algorithm has desirable characteristics like retaining decay and frequency per samplerate. something i've not seen anyone else do 
maybe because they're afraid to show me.
purity, on the other hand, i have plentiful knowledge of
..and, of course, practical details like an understanding of tuned filtering, reflection and coupling junctions. 8x oversampling at 44.1k is ~1mm air transmission per sample...
i don't care. just as long as i never have to hear another sampled sitar!
maybe because they're afraid to show me.purity, on the other hand, i have plentiful knowledge of
..and, of course, practical details like an understanding of tuned filtering, reflection and coupling junctions. 8x oversampling at 44.1k is ~1mm air transmission per sample...
i don't care. just as long as i never have to hear another sampled sitar!
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2029 posts since 21 Jul, 2004
I forgot to mention that right after I made this topic I managed to create a pretty decent model of one using surge. I used a classic saw wave and but added some octave harmonics and a tiny bit of sync-with-some-modulation(don't ask me why), however, the meat of the sound came from a basic karplus-strong setup using a key-track tuned comb(model 2, with medium high feedback) with a pretty good "pluck!" sounding noise-burst. I put a notchfilter first in the series before the comb, which was modulated slowly by the filter envelope. To put some icing on the cake I used some of Arty's wavetable add-ons(check out the forum at vember audio on how to add these wavs), specifically one of his sitar waves. It wasn't a perfect model by any means but It served its purpose.
Do not lick the fablanky
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- KVRAF
- 37509 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Check out Modelonia - I did a couple of Sitar presets for that.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2029 posts since 21 Jul, 2004
Oh nice, and they have a free player? Never noticed that!aMUSEd wrote:Check out Modelonia - I did a couple of Sitar presets for that.
Do not lick the fablanky
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- KVRAF
- 21348 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
that's the one i meant.
i misconcluded the absence of resonator strings from the sound of the model. i've gotten better 'swells' with single coupling than are in that mp3, which sounds like an unimproved karplus-strong implementation.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.