KVR Audio

Katzenjammer · Post by **Katzenjammer** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:36 am

A.M. Gold wrote:
ericj23 wrote:synchrosft - eliscencer - so no dongle required
Hmm, strange that in the "accessories" sidebar it had an iLok.

It's because you have to choice to use either the eLicenser or the iLok key. If you use the latter you can easily move the license for Largo between different computers. (I presume?)

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:42 am

Igro wrote:But one thing make Largo bit better(for me) is a LARGE amount of waves included. SynthSquad has 4 standard waves(Ok, there will be dedicated FM synth).

Please excuse me for stating the obvious, but Largo has a "large amount of waves included" because it's a WAVETABLE driven synth.

We are dealing with two distinctly different types of synthesis here. One is purely digital, the other is analogue modelling. The results achieved using these forms of synthesis have been, are now and always will be distinctly different. Not better, not worse, just different.

I have a MW XT here on my desk, I'm beta testing D-CAM.

The D-CAM synths can do audio rate modulation very well, so FM (cross) modulation of pitch or filter frequency is certainly possible (and sounding great), but it's not based on pre-designed wavetables, or wave forms loaded from a file, it's done in real-time.

The Largo will be interesting to check out, and from the manual it looks like it offers some intriguing new modulation possibilities not available in the orange monster, or earlier Waldorf synths. Yep, seems it's also doing real-time modulation of pitch / filters / whatever from wavetables, but the nature (and resolution) of wavetables affects the sound considerably.

The D-CAM synths have a totally different sound. Fusor is extraordinarily powerful - not only can you share modulation sources between synths (LFO's, envelopes, ARP), it's a bit like having a full production environment with multiple FX, multiple synths, Aux sends per synth, and multi-out within your DAW. This is a huge benefit to workflow, btw.

From what I've read of Largo so far (i.e. the manual and a few reviews), it is going to have the typically mediocre Waldorf effects. This is certainly not the case with Fusor. The quality of the effects is generally quite stunning.

Anyway. It depends entirely on the sound you want. Wavetable driven synthesis has a certain sound, which is the main point here. It is a great sound, but the only reason for comparing Largo to D-CAM is because both packages will be competing for your $$'s because of the relatively close release times.

The release date of these synths is where the similarities begin and end.

Peace,
Andy.

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:51 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:
Igro wrote:But one thing make Largo bit better(for me) is a LARGE amount of waves included. SynthSquad has 4 standard waves(Ok, there will be dedicated FM synth).
Please excuse me for stating the obvious, but Largo has a "large amount of waves included" because it's a WAVETABLE driven synth.

We are dealing with two distinctly different types of synthesis here. One is purely digital, the other is analogue modelling. The results achieved using these forms of synthesis have been, are now and always will be distinctly different. Not better, not worse, just different..

FM synthesis is like totally digital, is it not?

( edit )

+ I'm sure the filters in Largo, are analog models. I'm sure Largo has a lot of analog emulation built into it. Yes, it might run on wavetables as well.

Also, there is a good chance, that the arp on Largo, is really something else. Waldorf, and Access, just have incredible arps, we all know that.

As far as FX go-- A synths effects, are not really what should make the sound. They are just the icing on the cake.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:04 am

ckatrun411 wrote: FM synthesis is like totally digital, is it not?

Only because, in this instance, it is running on a computer or a digital synth such as the MW XT.

If you have (say) an analogue modular synth with two oscillators, you could modulate the pitch of the first oscillator with the control voltage output of the second oscillator - totally in the analogue realm, there is nothing "digital" about that. One frequency of voltage affecting another, directly.

So analogue FM is possible - it might not be as easy or precise as using e.g. RP Blue - but with some careful tuning, it will sound fabulous

Peace,
Andy.

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:06 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:
ckatrun411 wrote: FM synthesis is like totally digital, is it not?
Only because, in this instance, it is running on a computer or a digital synth such as the MW XT.

If you have (say) an analogue modular synth with two oscillators, you could modulate the pitch of the first oscillator with the control voltage output of the second oscillator - totally in the analogue realm, there is nothing "digital" about that. One frequency of voltage affecting another, directly.

So analogue FM is possible - it might not be as easy or precise as using e.g. RP Blue - but with some careful tuning, it will sound fabulous

Peace,
Andy.

I was wrong. NEvEr mind

pschelfh · Post by **pschelfh** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:09 am

Katzenjammer wrote:
A.M. Gold wrote:
ericj23 wrote:synchrosft - eliscencer - so no dongle required
Hmm, strange that in the "accessories" sidebar it had an iLok.
It's because you have to choice to use either the eLicenser or the iLok key. If you use the latter you can easily move the license for Largo between different computers. (I presume?)

From the Largo manual : eLicenser key = Syncrosoft key (as used in eg. Cubase). So no iLok.

Peter.

A.M. Gold · Post by **A.M. Gold** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:18 am

My mistake. This page:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/waldorf_largo. ... 22f5d0c8c6

showed an iLok key in "related products" so I assumed Largo used one. The iLok wasn't there anymore when I checked the page again tonight.

Katzenjammer · Post by **Katzenjammer** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:28 am

Sorry, my bad. Got the different providers of protection confused.

Mans · Post by **Mans** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:41 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote: Please excuse me for stating the obvious, but Largo has a "large amount of waves included" because it's a WAVETABLE driven synth.

We are dealing with two distinctly different types of synthesis here. One is purely digital, the other is analogue modelling. The results achieved using these forms of synthesis have been, are now and always will be distinctly different. Not better, not worse, just different.

All the Largo oscillators can either be set to a wavetable or an analog modelled waveform. It is certainly not purely a wavetable synth.

musikmachine · Post by **musikmachine** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:42 am

I've asked on the waldorf boards if there will be a demo version. I can't buy a synth without at least trying it out first. I'm sure i read that there will be one but the general consensus seems to be that there isn't. Might as well get it straight from the get go!

rectus_dominus · Post by **rectus_dominus** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:53 am

If they will add sample playback (wav, aiff, sf2, or sfz) and maybe some nifty little tools, I'll consider buying it. Since some time,I've seen some demos about the Blofeld, I'm starting to like the it's sound more and more, and I expect similar spectrum from the Largo, too
And yeah, demo is a must

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:06 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:
ckatrun411 wrote: FM synthesis is like totally digital, is it not?
Only because, in this instance, it is running on a computer or a digital synth such as the MW XT.

If you have (say) an analogue modular synth with two oscillators, you could modulate the pitch of the first oscillator with the control voltage output of the second oscillator - totally in the analogue realm, there is nothing "digital" about that. One frequency of voltage affecting another, directly.

So analogue FM is possible - it might not be as easy or precise as using e.g. RP Blue - but with some careful tuning, it will sound fabulous

Peace,
Andy.

Once again we are using confusing terms, and confusion arises. Analogue synthesis is a misleading terminology, because analogue is NOT a synthesis technique. Analogue synths were mainly subtractive synths. OTOH, FM synthesis was implemented commercially in the DX 7, which was a digital synth, but FM is just a synthesis technique where an oscillator will be modulatin another oscillator in the audio spectrum.
Using FM with analogue synths is very dangerous, because any subtle fluctuation of the modulator and/or the carrier will origin different spectra, so more if the modulation index is set to high level.
But since the D-SQUAD oscs are NOT analogue (just emulations), FM using these may be much more stable.
ANALOGUE means just that the parts used are based on electrical current, which, in it's behaviour is analogue to sound waves, while digital is a discrete reality based on sampling waves at a determined interval (the sampling rate).
So, D-CAM is as analogue as Largo, and any other software residing inside our computer. It is a VA, which means it aim is to emulate real analogue parts, while Largo aim is to be a synth, not emulating anything in particular. But Waldorf filters are traditionally between the best around, and I doubt they will be easily beaten by anything, including D-SQUAD. Let's wait and listen.

musikmachine · Post by **musikmachine** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:17 am

Found this demo comparing the virus tis' filters to the waldorf largo.

Careful! The resonance gets bit high on the largo demo. I noticed he's switching between them and while playing notes and i can't hear any difference. Waldorf sounds a bit harsh at higher resonance settings but those filters sound good!

pschelfh · Post by **pschelfh** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:30 am

musikmachine wrote:Found this demo comparing the virus tis' filters to the waldorf largo.

Careful! The resonance gets bit high on the largo demo. I noticed he's switching between them and while playing notes and i can't hear any difference. Waldorf sounds a bit harsh at higher resonance settings but those filters sound good!

Reading the Largo manual, I also got the impression that it's synth engine (3 osc, sync, pwm, fm, ring mod, wavetables, 2 filters) is extremly close to the Virus Ti.
On the plus side, the wavetables are completely different than the ones in the Virus and there are more envelopes (also a loopable one, great for scanning the wavetables). Virus Ti stays a bit behind with only 2 real envelopes.
So I might buy it anyway, I'm missing my XT.

Peter.

Mans · Post by **Mans** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:45 am

pschelfh wrote:
musikmachine wrote:Found this demo comparing the virus tis' filters to the waldorf largo.

Careful! The resonance gets bit high on the largo demo. I noticed he's switching between them and while playing notes and i can't hear any difference. Waldorf sounds a bit harsh at higher resonance settings but those filters sound good!
Reading the Largo manual, I also got the impression that it's synth engine (3 osc, sync, pwm, fm, ring mod, wavetables, 2 filters) is extremly close to the Virus Ti.
On the plus side, the wavetables are completely different than the ones in the Virus and there are more envelopes (also a loopable one, great for scanning the wavetables). Virus Ti stays a bit behind with only 2 real envelopes.
So I might buy it anyway, I'm missing my XT.

Peter.

The synht engine is an exact copy (structuraly at least) of the Waldorf Q + added wavetables (the Q only had the alt wavetables).

Largo is here!