What is the *correct* key signatur to use for a modal piece?

[AnalogGuy1]

So all this discussion about modal songs raises a question about the "correct" key signature to use.

E.g. should a song in D dorian (aka the Dorian mode of the C major scale) use the C major key signature to reflect its heritage, or use a Dm key signature to reflect its tonic although this requires lots of natural accidentals on the B to "correct" the key signature?

I've seen it done both ways, although the latter way seems more common. I'm betting one way is "right", but curious why.

[jplanet]

D Dorian would be written as the same key signature as C...Same for A aeolian, etc.

Someone here recently stated that modes are not scales - but that's not true -- for example, A Aeolian is the same as A minor.

I'm curious as to any examples of the latter that you mentioned - I could see programs like Sibelius doing that, if the composer enters D minor as the root, it would type a natural for every Bb as you mentioned - but that serves no helpful purpose for anyone who has to read it...unless the piece calls for improvisation, but that's why chord charts are typically used for that purpose - and in jazz, where they key could change as often as every beat, for example Giant Steps...

[jdt]

Exactly... Modal compositions are written in the same Key Signature as the Major Scale they are derived from.

[Broken]

,,

[AnalogGuy1]

I think I've seen it done more often using Broken's approach than the other way...which always seemed a bit weird because all those accidentals make it harder to read, although as he points out, it makes it immediately obvious that this isn't a standard minor piece.

One example of professionally-engraved music that writes a D Dorian using a D major scale instead of a C major scale: Tom Roed, "Advanced Piano Solos" - Killing Me Softly (With His Song).

[nuffink]

Someone here recently stated that modes are not scales - but that's not true -- for example, A Aeolian is the same as A minor.

How about B Locrian? Is that the same as A minor? It uses the same notes.

[Feng]

So all this discussion about modal songs raises a question about the "correct" key signature to use.

E.g. should a song in D dorian (aka the Dorian mode of the C major scale) use the C major key signature to reflect its heritage, or use a Dm key signature to reflect its tonic although this requires lots of natural accidentals on the B to "correct" the key signature?

I've seen it done both ways, although the latter way seems more common. I'm betting one way is "right", but curious why.

I'll try to make it simple. C major, D dorian, E phrigian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A Aelioan, B locrian all share the same notes. C,D,E,F,G,A,B. If you want a strict tonal composition you cannot use any other note.
If you want to compose a song in C major, so C is the tonic, so the melody seems suspended till it reaches C that is the home, the resolution.
If you want to compose a song in D dorian you can use the same notes, but you have to make D your home. Melody has to point strongly to D (and harmony to D min).
In E phrygian E is your melody "home", while Emin is your harmony "home".
I hope it can help.

[Rottweiler]

lads, modal music is not about what is the root note, its about the tone-semitone pattern.


you can grab a phrygian/dorian/whateva melody and transpose that X or Y semitones above, it will still be in the same mode, cause the pattern remains the same.

[jopy]

IMO, the correct key signature should be whatever the performer would find easiest to use. If you write a piece in D dorian, but use the F major key signature, all those B naturals would be cumbersome to read. Correct can be what you make it; Satie stopped using barlines back in the 1890's, so why can't we make our notation system equally adaptable to what the needs of contemporary performance require?

I also think that it's technically correct to use the key signature of the mode as well, at least as far as I can follow what Cormier is doing for notation in "Modal Music Composition."

[nuffink]

Whether it's correct or not the obvious key signature to use is that of the relative major scale (C for D Dorian).
If the piece is in Dorian it may make some sense to notate it in the parallel key (e.g. notate it in D for D Dorian) as you only have 2 accidentals. But if the piece is in (say) the Locrian mode you'd have 5 accidentals if you notate it in the parallel key (B for B Locrian). A right mess.

All in all it's much simpler to stick to the standard of notating modal pieces in the relative major key. You can always write "Dorian" somewhere on the score. Nobody will complain.

[jopy]

To clarify, I was trying to say what Nuffink just said. The "key signature" for D dorian would be no sharps, no flats.

[jancivil]

lads, modal music is not about what is the root note, its about the tone-semitone pattern.


you can grab a phrygian/dorian/whateva melody and transpose that X or Y semitones above, it will still be in the same mode, cause the pattern remains the same.

That isn't correct. Modal music is all about the relationship of each interval to a tonic.

Example given: if you transpose (call it a melody or whatever) <E F G A B C D> up a fourth to <A Bb C D E F G>, but tonic = E; ie., keep your bass centered on E, this set is not *phrygian* anymore. You would call this locrian mode On E. It has to relate to a tonic to have any identity at all, as a mode.