What is a motif?

[breakmixer]

Just been reading a music production book, keeps using it but it is not in the back dictionary bit, does it mean melodie line or lead!? :?

[Rock Hardbuns]

It means a recurring "theme" in general, but usually it's a melody line that keeps coming back.

edit: I just checked wikipedia, it apparently some also define it as the shortest musical or melodic phrase that is still recognizable and/or carries the identity of the tune. The wikipedia article is kind of messy though.

[rifftrax]

an awesome keyboard

[djanthonyw]

Ever see the movie "Signs"? The whole score is a motif.

[jancivil]

*riff*

Compare a persian carpet or something. An element in the design which recurs. It doesn't have to stand alone.
Like the germ of a theme. Might be the whole theme, might just be a fragment.

[breakmixer]

It means a recurring "theme" in general, but usually it's a melody line that keeps coming back.

edit: I just checked wikipedia, it apparently some also define it as the shortest musical or melodic phrase that is still recognizable and/or carries the identity of the tune. The wikipedia article is kind of messy though.

would something resembleing an arpegiator line be it, it's a high musical part that is not the lead I'm guessing, so what sounds are usual associated with this, a plucked sound or high bleep or in the case of an orchestra would it be a harp etc....I'm making dance music so a bass is a bass(obviously), a lead is normally a sawtooth style wave(big and thick sounding), Chords are any thing from pads to a rhodes etc, what is the motif sound usually(in general).

I'm thinking if it was 'Insomnia' by Faithless it would be the pizzacato line,

It's a short sound rapidly played(mostly) but of a high or mid frequency

Am I right - ish!

[jancivil]

in the kind of music you're talking about, it would tend to be a bass.

[breakmixer]

*riff*

Compare a persian carpet or something. An element in the design which recurs. It doesn't have to stand alone.
Like the germ of a theme. Might be the whole theme, might just be a fragment.

Ahaa, so if it was funk or rock it would be the rhythm guitar as appossed to lead or bass guitar, still a bit duped by it

I use (in my tracks)

Drums
Bass
Chords
Lead
Melody line(sometimes)

Is this the element I am missing? I haven't got a motif/riff! or have I?

[breakmixer]

in the kind of music you're talking about, it would tend to be the bass.

But in the book 'The Dance Music Manual' he describes the motif playing WITH The bass in the build up before the first drop....

[jancivil]

the lead line might or might not contain the main *motifs* of the tune. It it's 'the tune' it will tend to. A solo lead, like a guitar solo, some don't.

The bass usually will. In funk music, there might be a whole lot of different motifs happening, at different levels. Talk of *the* motif by definition describes something rather minimal, in terms of information.

That book might even be talking about the keyboard called that.

It's an element of the structure, which can be a small part of it or a large.

The riff in Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, Dat da da DAH, which expands, is a motif. That little bit, 'thematic fragment' isn't 'the theme'. but the first theme is built on that.

[breakmixer]

the lead line might or might not contain the main *motifs* of the tune. It it's 'the tune' it will tend to. A solo lead, like a guitar solo, some don't.

The bass usually will. In funk music, there might be a whole lot of different motifs happening, at different levels. Talk of *the* motif by definition describes something rather minimal, in terms of information.

That book might even be talking about the keyboard called that.




It's an element of the structure, which can be a small part of it or a large.

The riff in Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, Dat da da DAH, which expands, is a motif. That little bit, 'thematic fragment' isn't 'the theme'. but the first theme is built on that.

No it wasn't talking about the motif keyboard for sure....


So maybe the motif is the teaser of the main theme/chorus. I understand when you put it in the context of Beethoven(Love that track, THE VHB - Street Mix and the one that appears on Sat Night Fever, Walter something), it's a snippet related to the hook that comes in the lead up to the main theme/chorus, using the same sound but not the full theme, but an idea of what is to come next?

So it can be a lead sound, bass, chord or anything! Am I right now?

[jancivil]

It doesn't matter what instrument it is, the thing to understand is that a motif is a building block.
In the Beethoven, it's the basis for the entire idea, it just gets expounded on.

In 'Somewhere Over The Rainbow' the "Some... WHERE" -
(o_ver the Rain_bow)
the same Shape is heard later, as "way... UP" (high)

[blue... BIRDS (fly o'er the rainbow)]

that's a melodic motif.

In pop music it's going to be the basis of the hook, like in the above example.
Thinking in terms of structure like this gives music cohesion.

*The basis for a PATTERN*

[breakmixer]

It doesn't matter what instrument it is, the thing to understand is that a motif is a building block.
In the Beethoven, it's the basis for the entire idea, it just gets expounded on.

In 'Somewhere Over The Rainbow' the "Some... WHERE" -
(o_ver the Rain_bow)
the same Shape is heard later, as "way... UP" (high)

[blue... BIRDS (fly o'er the rainbow)]

that's a melodic motif.

In pop music it's going to be the basis of the hook, like in the above example.
Thinking in terms of structure like this gives music cohesion.

*The basis for a PATTERN*

Them vocals were all a part of the chorus in that song and as far as I can recall Them attributes weren't used elsewhere in that song, may have to get my Julie Andrews box set out I'm still a bit confused

A dance song that I know very well is Freeez-iou, does that have a motif I wonder? That's if anyone here remembers it, showing my age...

[jancivil]

That attribute is used three times, right there.

That shape is repeated. It's the basic shape in the thing. It's the main motif of the song.

A song can have other motifs. The other main one in that song is the falling third becoming a falling second in the bridge.

What is not clear about "the basis for a pattern"? It's not a complicated concept. If your trouble is you can't relate to the examples I've given you, so you dismiss it, I can't help that.

[breakmixer]

That attribute is used three times, right there.

That shape is repeated. It's the basic shape in the thing. It's the main motif of the song.

A song can have other motifs. The other main one in that song is the falling third becoming a falling second in the bridge.

What is not clear about "the basis for a pattern"? It's not a complicated concept. If your trouble is you can't relate to the examples I've given you, so you dismiss it, I can't help that.

At the minute I think in terms of

Drums
Bassline
Chord Progression
Lead
Melody

And maybe a change in bassline progressions so the chords/other sounds change with it for different parts in the song progression

Then I hear of a motif and that most(or all?!) music has them and I didn't know it existed, yet I may know them musically but not realise they are a motif...so I'm not dissmissing what you said I just don't understand it as such, it's a repetitive part that keeps showing throughout a song/track so far I have grasped! thanks anyhow