Some completly noob quenstions about key

[VSTadapter]

Hello my dear friends!!!

well i dont know anything about music theory so i "producing" with my ear

well, i mean ...

i make a sound that i like (with a synth) and i play some midi notes with my keyboard. i dont know about keys etc.
I may like that sound when playing it around c2 and not when playing it around c4 (very bright).

i then repeating the same steps with other sounds until i complete the track...

some sounds (to the same track) r close to c2 some others to c3 , c4 etc ... does this mean that the track is out of key???

a guy told me that if i want my track to be in key, i have to keep a steady key policy with all the sounds used in the same track :/

any very simple tips to understand what he mean and what is all about??? (he didnt want to help me when i asked him for details)

I know kvr will be much for friendly and helpful
Thanks

[thecontrolcentre]

some sounds (to the same track) r close to c2 some others to c3 , c4 etc ... does this mean that the track is out of key???

No ... C is C no matter where on the keyboard.

a guy told me that if i want my track to be in key, i have to keep a steady key policy with all the sounds used in the same track :/

Not strictly true ... key changes are perfectly acceptable. If it sounds right to you, then it is right.

[VSTadapter]

thanks very much for your reply thecontrolcentr!!!

so if i have my bassline c2
some synths to c3
and some to c4

then i can say that my track's key is "c" right?



and what if my bassline is in c2

some synth shot @ A#3
some shot @ F#4 etc???

i cant say that my track is in this key right?

sorry if im asking stupid questions

[robogone]

C, A# and F# do not make up notes in any of the Major or minor keys, but that doesn't mean that you can't use this combination of notes.

However, if you used C, E and G, you would be in the key of C Major. Or if you used C, Eb and G you would be in the key of C minor.

[Aircrash]

sorry if im asking stupid questions

You're not, but perhaps you'll need a book to introduce you in music theory more than a forum answer...

so if i have my bassline c2
some synths to c3
and some to c4

then i can say that my track's key is "c" right?



and what if my bassline is in c2

some synth shot @ A#3
some shot @ F#4 etc???

let's see.. bassically, every note you play,a b c d e f g, a#, Ab, etc.. all of them can be the start point of a key. So, you got c d e f g a b, thats the C Major key, and a b c d e f g, thats the A Minor key; try making music around those notes and starting a song in c and ending it c for the C Mayor key; starting it in a and ending it in a for the A Minor Key. that's the basics.

I also recomend you to check this links for info about the Scales and the Intervals: http://neilhawes.com/sstheory/theory02.htm http://library.thinkquest.org/15413/the ... htm#scales

[TCGMabe]

A basic answer to your question:

When one says that a song is in a certain key they mean that ALL of the notes that are used to create the Chords ... Bassline ... Melody etc. are from the same Scale. For example ... the key of C Major has the following tones in it ... C D E F G A B on to the next C and repeating ... no sharps ... no flats ... you can play ANY of those notes ANYWHERE on the instrument and they will be in KEY. Some of them will sound better than others ... for example ... build basic TRIADS out of the tones from your SCALE ... a triad is a three note chord ... typically the 1st, 3rd and 5th degrees from each note ... so a C major Triad would be CEG played together. I started at 1 or C ... added the 3rd or E and then the 5th or G ... if I wanted to build a triad off of the 4th degree I would start with my new 1 which is F counting up 3 starting with F I find an A ... and up 5 from my F starting with F I find a C so my 4th triad would be FAC ... my 5th triad would be GBD. By playing these basic triads I can play what is referred to as a (I)One (IV)Four (V)Five progression in the Key of C Major. This process is the same for ANY Key ... as an example ... A Major has the following tones ... A B C# D E F# G# on to the next A and repeating ... My 1st triad would be AC#E ... 4th triad DF#A ... 5th triad EG#B. In order to determine the notes in a Major scale there is a simple formula which can easily be found through web searches .... hope this answers your question and Good Luck !

[TCGMabe]

C, A# and F# do not make up notes in any of the Major or minor keys, but that doesn't mean that you can't use this combination of notes.

However, if you used C, E and G, you would be in the key of C Major. Or if you used C, Eb and G you would be in the key of C minor.

Careful not to confuse Chords and Keys ... that CEG triad (Chord) could also be the IV chord in the key of G Major for example !

[robogone]

Or to put it another way, lets say you want to play in C Major - that could mean quite a few things.

For the bass note you would probably be playing a C (but there are other options). If you want to play chords or arpeggios over that then you would play the 3 notes C, E and G.

To improvise over the top of all of this you would play notes from the scale of C Major - C, D, E, F, G, A and B.

The notes in Major and minor scales for any particular key are different, and the actual notes that make up each scale vary depending on the root note.

[jancivil]

A basic answer to your question:

When one says that a song is in a certain key they mean that ALL of the notes that are used to create the Chords ... Bassline ... Melody etc. are from the same Scale.

Um, no. When I say to a musician, it's "in E" or something, what you have there is not necessarily what I mean.

EG: "Blues in E" doesn't refer to a row of tones. To a jazz musician (let's just say, and not at all limited to this) - there are going to be harmonic alterations, containing notes which are not restricted to whatever someone thinks is the 'scale' of 'Blues in E'. Which isn't really a scale in terms of major/minor, SO... When I call out 'Blues in E', no one is in their mind going, "I can only play this set of tones, cause she said 'in E'".

"It's in E", is kinda sorta limited to: <the tonal center is 'E'>. Some pretty simple music might be strictly diatonic like what you said must be, but some music just does not; which is not to say it's not in 'that key'.

EDIT: concrete example. The Foxy Lady chord: F# A# E A. What scale? You tell me. But sure as shootin, it's "in F#".

[VSTadapter]

oh!!! i can see many great detailed posts!!
thanks all of you very very much!!!

really appreciated!

i will read everything 3-4 times more to understand 100% )))

[robogone]

If you don't understand anything, post back and ask questions. No one is born with musical theory knowledge and we all had to learn the same way that you are.

[jancivil]

thanks very much for your reply thecontrolcentr!!!

so if i have my bassline c2
some synths to c3
and some to c4

then i can say that my track's key is "c" right?



and what if my bassline is in c2

some synth shot @ A#3
some shot @ F#4 etc???

i cant say that my track is in this key right?

sorry if im asking stupid questions

There are no stupid questions. The thing to know, is that if 'C' is predominantly on the beat, like if when 'one' comes around there tends to be C more often than not, it's going to be 'in C'. The other notes might be all over the place. You can have 'all twelve' going, but if there is a predominance of 'C', that tends to indicate 'key of C'.

If there comes a point in the thing where A# is 'FUNDAMENTAL' to the sound of the thing, like the bass is repeating it a lot, on the beat, you might have moved to 'key of A#'.

[TCGMabe]

A basic answer to your question:

EG: "Blues in E" doesn't refer to a row of tones. To a jazz musician (let's just say, and not at all limited to this) - there are going to be harmonic alterations, containing notes which are not restricted to whatever someone thinks is the 'scale' of 'Blues in E'. Which isn't really a scale in terms of major/minor, SO... When I call out 'Blues in E', no one is in their mind going, "I can only play this set of tones, cause she said 'in E'".

"It's in E", is kinda sorta limited to: <the tonal center is 'E'>. Some pretty simple music might be strictly diatonic like what you said must be, but some music just does not; which is not to say it's not in 'that key'.

EDIT: concrete example. The Foxy Lady chord: F# A# E A. What scale? You tell me. But sure as shootin, it's "in F#".

I understand your point ... however I must admit that the generally accepted definition of "Key" falls a little closer to my side of the fence ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music).

Also ... Jazz is a tough example because there is rarely a strong key center ... generally speaking Jazz follows the principle of playing Arpeggios based on the current chord followed by Approach notes and Connecting notes to create harmonies against the current chord.

In addition when you say "Blues in E" ... I would assume ... (maybe incorrectly) that you wanted me to play pentatonic scales with a #4/b5 and a #6/b7 to imply the feel of what is commonly referred to as "Blue Notes". Again just my opinion of your statement.

And the last point I wanted to make is that a single chord cannot clearly define a key in most cases ... as I pointed out in a different section many chords have different relationships depending on what Key you are in ... like C Major could be the I chord in C ... the IV chord in G ... the V chord in F ... etc ....

I am not trying to start a flame-war ... and I respect your position ... just trying to clarify the intent of my original post. Maybe I should have used the word Typically or a common approach is .... At any rate ... Have a good one !

[jancivil]

You've said 'in C' means a scale. It doesn't. A definition to be restricted to that... I'd think it's just not the best information per the OP, so I felt it needed to be countered.

And, 'jazz generally lacks a strong tonic' isn't necessarily best information either. There is an entire school of 'jazz', where the Tonic is King. "Modal". Generally speaking, your example of usage in jazz describes a particular school, bebop out of swing. And that school uses turnarounds, which Always Take You Home. So it's a roundabout journey, don't mean it's 'atonal' music. Cecil Taylor lacks a strong tonic, for sure. Charlie Parker, no. All of that harmony functions towards key. It just modulates often. You substitute for harmonies that are found inside the structure of Show Tunes, and Blues.

I gave an example, Foxy Lady by Jimi Hendrix. It's a major/minor 7th with a #9, which can also be described as a minor third. It defines 'the key'. It's a blues-third derived chord, IE: the third might be ambiguous.

I would *imply* certain kinds of tones with 'Blues in E', but not *prescribe*.

If I played no Fs, and only F#s over a constant C in the bass, have I strayed from 'in C'? I have not. If I mix Bb and B natural, at will, and there is the fundamental "C", I did not obviate 'in C' by so doing.

You could run symmetrical scales over an E drone, and be 'key of E'. So long as 'E' is the center of your gravity, regardless of what sets are included, that, and that alone defines 'in E'.

[Nystul]

I understand your point ... however I must admit that the generally accepted definition of "Key" falls a little closer to my side of the fence ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music).

You gave the impression that music must be strictly diatonic to be "in key". That is very rarely the case in my experience. It's a fine starting place to making music, to make a diatonic piece in C major using those white key triads and a white key melody, and then do the same in other keys. However, if you end a theme in C major with a B diminished chord under a C in the melody, is it going to sound in key? Probably not, even though all of the notes you are playing are in C major. And by the same token, can you throw a Ab chord in there and resolve it to G, and still call it C major? Of course you can. (J.S. Bach did far worse things than this! )

That's kind of the problem with this key thing. Even though it's such a basic concept, trying to explain it in a few paragraphs and have someone suddenly be able to write a song is just impossible. I think a basic theory book may be the best thing for the original poster. Or if he's making loop-based music, continuing to trust the ears to tell when a note is "wrong" may be good enough.