KVR Audio

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:15 pm

MarcTale wrote:My system: Core2Quad 6600, 3.2 GB of RAM,Nvidia8800GT, XP Prof SP2 32bit and Cubase4.

I think that's alright...

Biggest problems seem to be the Delay, Reverb and of course unison.
But no problems there with other synths e.g. Reaktor 5.
I'm trying to find the best synth for Hypersaws.

If you need true hypersaws, consider buying Sylenth1. It has 4 oscillators with up to 8 detunable saws each. Makes 32 saws maxiuum which should be enough.

In Largo you could simulate this using unison and 4 layers. I will try to enter such a patch in the update v1.1 of my PPG bank for Largo. I already entered some lead patches with unison and one which uses three layers with 3 OSCs and 2 SUB-OSCs each. This gives 15 oscillators and a very fat sound.

Igro · Post by **Igro** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:32 pm

MarcTale wrote: Hypersaw

This sample was posted by drmesmer in the other thread: http://www.buda.jazztel.es//demo_foro.mp3 Check 01:17 Sounds cool.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:41 pm

Due to the hypersaw discussion I added four more patches to the update of my bank:

- "Stacked Strings 1 IW" : 3 layers, each 3 OSCs (Saw) + 2 voices unison = 18 saws

- "Stacked Strings 2 IW" : 2 layers, each 3 OSCs (Saw) + 4 voices unison = 24 saws

- "Unison Strings 1 IW" : 1 layer with 3 OSCs (Saw) + 6 voices unison = 18 saws

- "Stacked Strings 3 IW" : 2 layers, each 3 OSCs (Saw) + 6 voices unison = 36 saws

I tried to stack 3 layers with each 6 voices unison. This could almost kill even a quad core CPU, appr. 66% on a Q6600 when playing a chord. Made no sense for me. If you use the patches above be sure to use a quad core or at least a dual core CPU.

I'll try to publish the updated bank as soon as possible. I asked KVR to delete all older versions of the bank except the last one and they did it now.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:02 pm

Igro wrote:
MarcTale wrote: Hypersaw
This sample was posted by drmesmer in the other thread: http://www.buda.jazztel.es//demo_foro.mp3 Check 01:17 Sounds cool.

The pad sounds like it uses heavy phaser fx but not necessarily a hypersaw.

MarcTale · Post by **MarcTale** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:06 pm

Ingonator wrote: I tried to stack 3 layers with each 6 voices unison. This could almost kill even a quad core CPU, appr. 66% on a Q6600 when playing a chord. Made no sense for me. If you use the patches above be sure to use a quad core or at least a dual core CPU.

So it's not just my system. I'm a little delighted.
I'm gonna have to do it in a different way.
I'll try your bank. thx!

SolarRainUK · Post by **SolarRainUK** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:29 pm

Igro wrote:
filtide wrote:
MarcTale wrote:I have to agree.
Largo also maxes out my CPU with a selfmade Hypersaw (4 Layers, EQ, Unison and Delay).
Would be great, if the CPU usage would be optimized a bit.
slowly you must understand that it's impossible to get better sound with the same cpu usage as 10 years ago.
quad cpu is very cheap now.
Absolutely true. And I'm too against lowering the quality just for getting low CPU loading.(Cos every developer will say to you, that CPU optimizations goes throw quality lowering) Sure the new great soft synths is forwarded to last processors.
Also from some persons above, Largo is not CPU hungry at all.

Not hungry at all? I beg to differ..

Core2Quad 6600, 8GB RAM, Vista Ultimate 64 sp1 with Cubase 4.

I can almost bring my quad 6600 to it's knees with a single layer pad, even without Unison it can use a lot of CPU - that's not good, something needs optimised.

I'm also against lower quality, but maybe that's not the problem here. I know it's not the FX or the filters, the same thing happens with them switched off. Unison does add a lot to CPU usage for sure.

As an example. Use a single layer, turn on all 3 OSCs and set the Amp envelope release time to about 80. No FX, all filters and Unison switched off and turn Global Voices up to 32. Now play some big chords one after the other and watch the CPU climb. Mine hit about 25% CPU with this very basic pad. Turning Unison just to 2 and turning Global Voices up to 56 or so, I can easily go over 50% CPU.

That's one totally unusable pad right there, without any FX and only a single layer.

You still think it's not hungry?

SolarRainUK · Post by **SolarRainUK** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:33 pm

Obviously if you use very quick release times so that the voices don't overlap much, and low global voices settings AND don't use Unison mode, everything is fine...

But so much for huge epic ambient pads I guess..

I've not even tried Largo in a full mix yet, I'm scared to!

rob_lee · Post by **rob_lee** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:35 pm

Q6600 4GB XP PRO = Sonar 8pe Audio Engine stopping and 60%plus cpu hit ( Pressing more than 2 keys with 1 layer activated)

we can't all be wrong saying that Largo brings a Quad Core to it's knees can we?
also try using amp env release at mine maxes out at 93% and Sonar quits unless i quickly change presets.

rob

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:42 pm

MarcTale wrote: I'm trying to find the best synth for Hypersaws.

If you have time, wait for SynthMaster:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... ynthmaster

It has:

1. Additive Oscillators (8 different osc running as a "single" osc, each with different detune, tone, phase, volume)

2.Upto 8 voices Unison, so if you have an additive osc, and you set the unison to 8 voices, you're playing 64 osc at once for each note!

3. Has also wavetable/wavesequencing (16 wavetables/osc)

4. Has waveform editor (time domain/spectral domain) to build your own single cycle waveforms.

And the best of it, it is $39 until September 1st, $59 afterwards. Will be release in September hopefuly!

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:02 pm

My Core 2 Quad Q6600 maxes out when i use 4 layers with 6 voices unison each and play a chord. Those are 72 voices if you play a 3 notes chord. So i guess the 256 voices limit is only for very basic patches or just not possible.

When i use a "normal" pad like "Cremetorte WMF" from the factory patches which uses 2 voices unison it's no problem to use 6 or more instances of Largo.

So the most CPU consuming features are 1.) unison and 2.) FX.My proposal is to use 6 voices unison only when necessary or in songs with few Largo instances. For typical use 4 voices unison should be enough.

Another possibility to save CPU is layering patches in one instance of Largo instead of using several instances.

Maybe it would be a good approximation to calculate with around 65-80 voices available on a Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU. From that you could calculate how many patches you can use.

SolarRainUK · Post by **SolarRainUK** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:16 pm

But did you try my example above? That's only 1 layer, no FX, no Unison, it's not even using the Sub Osc. It's the most basic pad you could imagine, yet it will still get you to around 25% as notes start overlapping. Now imagine using it in a mix..

That says to me, Largo is very CPU hungry and in need of some optimisations.

The thing is, Unison sounds so damn good on pads, I want to use that too but the only way to use Unison efficiently is by limiting global voices to like 16 or something - which kind of defeats the purpose..

filtide · Post by **filtide** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:19 pm

MarcTale wrote:Biggest problems seem to be the Delay, Reverb and of course unison.
But no problems there with other synths e.g. Reaktor 5.
I'm trying to find the best synth for Hypersaws.

bounce then, that's the best workflow anyway.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:19 pm

I published my updated Largo bank: http://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=lis ... order=date

description:

"This bank contains 68 recreations of PPG Wave 2.V patches + 11 analog Largo patches + init bank + init file. fxp and fxb files included. All old patches of the bank are updated/refined. Largo v1.1.0 is recommended for using the layered patches."

The analog patches contain mostly sounds using unison and/or layers for testing those features of Largo.

More patches will follow but i have no time schedule for that.

SolarRainUK · Post by **SolarRainUK** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:29 pm

MarcTale wrote: Biggest problems seem to be the Delay, Reverb and of course unison.
But no problems there with other synths e.g. Reaktor 5.
I'm trying to find the best synth for Hypersaws.

MarcTale what is your problem with the reverb exactly? Did you update Largo to 1.10? The first version of the reverb was very cheap/metallic, but it's been substantially improved with the latest version.

MarcTale · Post by **MarcTale** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:31 pm

filtide wrote:
MarcTale wrote:Biggest problems seem to be the Delay, Reverb and of course unison.
But no problems there with other synths e.g. Reaktor 5.
I'm trying to find the best synth for Hypersaws.
bounce then, that's the best workflow anyway.

I hope you just forgot the irnony smiley becaus bouncing is the worst workflow there is!
I hate static things.
I want to make sure I can ALWAYS go into a synth and change it they way I like because I do that very often.
I change a synth 20-30 times within a production and I don't want bounce it everytime just to see that 20 Minutes later i have to bounce again.
That's NO workflow!

Largo is here!