Hello im just looking for some tips on how to create that drive sound in progressive trance. im cool with every other genre it seems im having so much trouble with progressive .
when i say progressive i mean stuff like this
http://video.google.com/videosearch?sou ... v&start=10
or this
what are some secrets of creating progressive trance.
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- KVRian
- 838 posts since 22 Feb, 2001
We can't tell you, they are secrets:)
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DJ_Schoolcraft DJ_Schoolcraft https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=189215
- KVRist
- 311 posts since 13 Sep, 2008 from Wandering
are you sure its progressive trance you're talking about? the first two were psy-trance and the last sounded a bit more tech trancy to me.
-Schoolcraft
-Schoolcraft
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- KVRian
- 1211 posts since 7 Aug, 2006 from Geelong, Australia
Neither of those were really progressive-trance. That last link was psy-trance and I couldn't get the first one to work. The middle one was hard-trance, which is alot like hard-style but without all the gabber shit, and therefore automatically better (not that I dislike gabber).
The trick to both hard-trance and psy-trance is the lead sounds and the distortion and constant filter tweaking of those sounds. I can't really suggest any plugins for you, but there are plenty of freebie distortion plugins around that you should get cosy with. Also, lots of incidental elements are used in psy-trance to create more depth. Whereas hard-trance focusses more on the lead sound building up in energy (thru filter or envelope tweaks for example).
Also, in both those tracks the bassline was a fullon rolling type of affair. If you set the sustain low and the decay short and add a touch of portomento you can get some neat sounds going, especially when you just pitch a few notes up here and there and let it chug along underneath all the filtery good ness of the lead sounds.
With trance in general: simple drums and complex melodies is the rule of thumb. If you are using FL Studio then try to hunt down some trance-related tutorial files by Dragor, he's no master, but it will open your eyes to different ways of creating melodies and variations on melodies and stacking/layering melodies and sounds to acheive that wall-of-sound style full of subtle variations that keep you hooked each time you hear a track.
The thing that makes progressive-trance different is actually its retro-ness. It uses rawer synth sounds and features a much longer chord progression and phrase length (ie: the length of its sections, like the build and breakdown and climax are all much longer in length compared to more commercial dance music styles). It also progresses from start to finish in a single, linear movement rather than in a verse/chorus structure like house, pop, rock, etc. So its like techno in that its more about a loop and exploring its variations rather than about a specific arrangement. And the drums are either synthetic or tribal in their sounds and feel. So its like a revival of how trance was in the early 90's before the whole epic/euphoric thing happened and it became popular (as far as electronic dance music anyways).
Further reading: watch the How Music Works series on youtube and hunt down the pdf of A Practical Guide To Musical Compostion. Both deal more with classical music, but the principles are easy to apply to any genre, especially one like Trance that relies so heavily on melody and variations/layers of melodies to create its progression. Also, some very basic music theory can be useful (just having a copy of the circle of fifths lying around is usually enough, but learning about scales and intervals can help you construct melodies and chord progressions that get the mood across more effectively).
Its not much, but its a start...
EDIT: here's a track with a more progressive-trance vibe:
The trick to both hard-trance and psy-trance is the lead sounds and the distortion and constant filter tweaking of those sounds. I can't really suggest any plugins for you, but there are plenty of freebie distortion plugins around that you should get cosy with. Also, lots of incidental elements are used in psy-trance to create more depth. Whereas hard-trance focusses more on the lead sound building up in energy (thru filter or envelope tweaks for example).
Also, in both those tracks the bassline was a fullon rolling type of affair. If you set the sustain low and the decay short and add a touch of portomento you can get some neat sounds going, especially when you just pitch a few notes up here and there and let it chug along underneath all the filtery good ness of the lead sounds.
With trance in general: simple drums and complex melodies is the rule of thumb. If you are using FL Studio then try to hunt down some trance-related tutorial files by Dragor, he's no master, but it will open your eyes to different ways of creating melodies and variations on melodies and stacking/layering melodies and sounds to acheive that wall-of-sound style full of subtle variations that keep you hooked each time you hear a track.
The thing that makes progressive-trance different is actually its retro-ness. It uses rawer synth sounds and features a much longer chord progression and phrase length (ie: the length of its sections, like the build and breakdown and climax are all much longer in length compared to more commercial dance music styles). It also progresses from start to finish in a single, linear movement rather than in a verse/chorus structure like house, pop, rock, etc. So its like techno in that its more about a loop and exploring its variations rather than about a specific arrangement. And the drums are either synthetic or tribal in their sounds and feel. So its like a revival of how trance was in the early 90's before the whole epic/euphoric thing happened and it became popular (as far as electronic dance music anyways).
Further reading: watch the How Music Works series on youtube and hunt down the pdf of A Practical Guide To Musical Compostion. Both deal more with classical music, but the principles are easy to apply to any genre, especially one like Trance that relies so heavily on melody and variations/layers of melodies to create its progression. Also, some very basic music theory can be useful (just having a copy of the circle of fifths lying around is usually enough, but learning about scales and intervals can help you construct melodies and chord progressions that get the mood across more effectively).
Its not much, but its a start...
EDIT: here's a track with a more progressive-trance vibe:
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 147 posts since 15 May, 2009
thanks napalmbob , ill try some of your tips but i too like trance better when it was in the 90s , i also heard of a method when producing think or imagine you are on a road trip and imagine all the stuff that happens along the way and put that to music. for example you rev the engine,you accelerate,you avoid an accident ,the car flips and you are rescued by angels ,you somehow get back in the car and you take off again into the same road trip, etc etc and all the stuff you see and everything that happens along the way you put into musical sense.
but i will check out that pdf file.
but i will check out that pdf file.
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- KVRist
- 207 posts since 12 Apr, 2005 from The Netherlands
So just because you think the synths you own are made to make trance you want to make that style of music? Or do you also like trance? You have to make the music you like!bert786 wrote:... the reason i want to produce dark progressive trance is because all the synths i have compliment that style mostly granular, and modular synths.
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- KVRAF
- 5948 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Melbourne, Australia
Exactly.timnl85 wrote:You have to make the music you like!
Make the music you like, and let other people put in a category. That's how it works. It's all made up anyway, but people like to have a frame of reference to talk about stuff.
"Angels and car crashes" is really just another way of saying light and dark, which is another way of saying contrast.
So just keep practising with what you have. Playing, make noises, trying out different effects. Eventually the stuff you like the sound of will stick, and the stuff you don't like will be forgotten. Using the techniques you remember you'll find yourself putting together your vision of how you think your music should sound much more easily. It might sound like progressive trance, or it might sound like something else, but that's not very important, just that you are happy with what you are producing. Other people liking it is a bonus
Peace,
Andy.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 147 posts since 15 May, 2009
i do like trance thats why i have the synths i have ,im not just making music to make music i like this kind of music. I do agree that you should just have fun and make what style you want but some times you want to try and make a certain style and your end results sounds like something else. some other style ,you created.
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- KVRAF
- 1595 posts since 17 Nov, 2007 from Seattle, WA
What Napalmbob & ZenPunkHippy wrote is solid gold. Good posts guys.
Side point: The equipment or software you use is generally not conducive to any specific kind of music. You can make just about any style with any DAW or softsynth, etc. So try to let go of the conception that your tools will push you a certain direction(even if you like that direction). That is false. My main point: Try to lose those preconceptions, and DO explore.
As for your thread's main purpose, I think I understand what you're going for. The issue is FEEL, and what it is that makes that feel. Well, theres a number of things, for instance what ZenPunkHippy highlighted.
Yet, from the impression I get, the biggest impact you'll see towards that feel is by finding the right INTERVALS. Finding the right chords, and the right progressions. So this aspect is ground within music theory. You might try approaching the question from that angle.
I suggest doing an exercise: Get a list of about a dozen songs who've got the sort of feel that you're after. Find out what key the songs are in. Then, find out what their primary chord progressions are. Try out playing their pads and such on the keyboard, manually. It's likely that you'll eventually find patterns - Certain scale degrees might tend to be avoided, or you'll find that the jumps between two particular scale degrees always sound right to you.
Try not to, however, look at the textures or the automations or the FX. That's just frosting. The cake itself is the chord progressions, (or, as is often the case in 'cruising' prog trance, a lack there-of).
Unfortunately, this isn't a simple task to suggest - Priming yourself on music theory if you're new to it isn't exactly easy, but getting the basics is VERY useful. You'll start being able to predict how to get a certain feel, rather than fishing around blindly for something specific. You'll know why something in particular didn't work, and how to fix it.
You might consider taking piano lessons. When I was about a year in, as you are, I ran into a very similar issue as you. I took some piano lessons, and that did help me concretely understand some things that were previously very vague ideas. It took about 6 months to really get the ideas to sink in, but now, I am a lot better equipped to translate what's in my mind into the DAW.
Give it a try.
Side point: The equipment or software you use is generally not conducive to any specific kind of music. You can make just about any style with any DAW or softsynth, etc. So try to let go of the conception that your tools will push you a certain direction(even if you like that direction). That is false. My main point: Try to lose those preconceptions, and DO explore.
As for your thread's main purpose, I think I understand what you're going for. The issue is FEEL, and what it is that makes that feel. Well, theres a number of things, for instance what ZenPunkHippy highlighted.
Yet, from the impression I get, the biggest impact you'll see towards that feel is by finding the right INTERVALS. Finding the right chords, and the right progressions. So this aspect is ground within music theory. You might try approaching the question from that angle.
I suggest doing an exercise: Get a list of about a dozen songs who've got the sort of feel that you're after. Find out what key the songs are in. Then, find out what their primary chord progressions are. Try out playing their pads and such on the keyboard, manually. It's likely that you'll eventually find patterns - Certain scale degrees might tend to be avoided, or you'll find that the jumps between two particular scale degrees always sound right to you.
Try not to, however, look at the textures or the automations or the FX. That's just frosting. The cake itself is the chord progressions, (or, as is often the case in 'cruising' prog trance, a lack there-of).
Unfortunately, this isn't a simple task to suggest - Priming yourself on music theory if you're new to it isn't exactly easy, but getting the basics is VERY useful. You'll start being able to predict how to get a certain feel, rather than fishing around blindly for something specific. You'll know why something in particular didn't work, and how to fix it.
You might consider taking piano lessons. When I was about a year in, as you are, I ran into a very similar issue as you. I took some piano lessons, and that did help me concretely understand some things that were previously very vague ideas. It took about 6 months to really get the ideas to sink in, but now, I am a lot better equipped to translate what's in my mind into the DAW.
Give it a try.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 147 posts since 15 May, 2009
Moki19 i agree with Napalmbob & ZenPunkHippy 100%
and you say making the drive is all in music theory and the rest is all icing on the cake so to speak , then you basically answered my question ,because i know some chord progressions create different moods and feelings i will focus on them now.
thanks.
and you say making the drive is all in music theory and the rest is all icing on the cake so to speak , then you basically answered my question ,because i know some chord progressions create different moods and feelings i will focus on them now.
thanks.