KVR Audio

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:06 pm

No VSTs yet hey?

blank/diod · Post by **blank/diod** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:34 pm

headquest wrote:But seriously - ttoz is a very experienced user of a whole range of music software. He's not a fool or a newb...

Good, then he should know better than to be "still trying to work out how to import an audio file" after 20 minutes, let alone 2 minutes. Ask yourself what you would do if drag and drop failed.

I think that basically he was assuming that Record is indeed a professional grade product (I think the phrase you used before) and was thus suprised that drag and drop didn't work as it does in professional music software.

Drag and drop can be supported in a $15 shareware app, or it can be non-supported in a $25,000, it's not a valid indicator of the level of professionalism. OK? I have Photoshop here. Do you know what happens if I create an image document and try to drag a picture file from my desktop to that document? Nothing. I guess Photoshop is for amateurs, then?

He expressed that suprise the way he did (after just 20 minutes of using the programme, if you check the context you took the quote out of) ... I just think you read into that some idea that he doesn't know what he is doing, which was a false assumption on your part.

How can you read "i am still trying to work out how to import an audio file since drag and drop didn't work" in any other way than what the words actually say? Drag and drop didn't work. Since he's "still trying", am I falsely assuming he hasn't figured out how else to do it? Does the meaning of this particular sentence change when quoted out of context?

spaceman wrote:No VSTs yet hey?

Nope. They explain this decision in full detail here (scroll down to Plug-ins, part 1, then continue upwards to parts 2 and 3). Take it or leave it. To make a long story short: Flow, consistency, reliability, portability, performance.

koalaboy · Post by **koalaboy** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:00 pm

blank/diod wrote:Drag and drop can be supported in a $15 shareware app, or it can be non-supported in a $25,000, it's not a valid indicator of the level of professionalism. OK?

Whilst most of your points are correct, this isn't. Drag-and-drop, where intuitive is a very valid indicator of usability, which in turn is an indicator of the level of professionalism.

The correct answer is "Yes, drag-and-drop would enhance the workflow and perhaps it will be added. In the meantime, the menu is likely to be the first place anyone would look with drag-and-drop not working".

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:21 pm

blank/diod wrote:
headquest wrote:But seriously - ttoz is a very experienced user of a whole range of music software. He's not a fool or a newb...
Good, then he should know better than to be "still trying to work out how to import an audio file" after 20 minutes, let alone 2 minutes. Ask yourself what you would do if drag and drop failed.

Usually during the first half hour or so with a programme I just go exploring in general, and stuff I can't instantly do I mentally "park" ready to go back to and work out later.

After 20 minutes with Record there was a pile of stuff I had not yet worked out (or, to put it another way, was "still trying to work out"). That's not because I'm a complete idiot (completion is still some way off) but simply because I hadn't yet got around to it.

you don't seriously think that ttoz actually *just* spent 20 minutes trying to work out how to import an audio file do you?!

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:43 pm

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spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:46 pm

ttoz wrote:@ headquest: Thanks and yes the 20 minutes wasn't spent trying to open an audio file LOL. that honor went to the very first ever release of podium

Took me two days to find the close button on that one.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:53 pm

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fceramic · Post by **fceramic** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:58 pm

It's odd that they have not implemented any drag and drop. It's especially annoying with midi files since it then creates a new advice instead of putting the midi file in the selected track. Very strange.

X-Soul · Post by **X-Soul** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:17 pm

Hell, I can use drag and drop in Cubase as well?

Didn't knew that. Always used import audio menu.

mellotronaut · Post by **mellotronaut** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm

fridtjof wrote:It's odd that they have not implemented any drag and drop. It's especially annoying with midi files since it then creates a new advice instead of putting the midi file in the selected track. Very strange.

doesn't Reason do the same and it changes tempo, if the midi-file's is different from the host's?

Shabdahbriah · Post by **Shabdahbriah** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:46 pm

spaceman wrote:No VSTs yet hey?

Doubtless you're familiar with 'props' history with steinberg???

blank/diod · Post by **blank/diod** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:30 pm

Shabdahbriah wrote:
spaceman wrote:No VSTs yet hey?
Doubtless you're familiar with 'props' history with steinberg???

What's that got to do with anything? Is this one of those conspiracy theories about Props not being "allowed" to implement VST due to some secret non-competition contract? Yeah, that's what they said about audio recording too...

Their reasons for not supporting VST/AU are explained in detail in the Record Blog. You may not agree with those reasons, but at least you'll know what they are. Some excerpts...

- No inconsistency across device interfaces, no separate preferences or file folders to keep track of for each device.

- Rack devices are part of the application's global undo/redo, which isn't possible with plugins.

- You can save, cut, copy and paste device chains.

- No latency compensation or other timing issues.

- Portability. No need to worry about the source and target computer not having the same plugins, the right versions of those plugins, the right samples for those plugins etc.

- Great performance gains by building everything into a single environment - all processing is unified and the chain is optimized for signal flow, formats, memory usage, timing impacts, hyperthreading, latency and stability. No Freeze function required.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:36 pm

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blank/diod · Post by **blank/diod** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:44 pm

fridtjof wrote:It's odd that they have not implemented any drag and drop.

I didn't even think of that before the beta was released and people started making remarks about it.

I never use drag and drop for anything except opening documents by dropping them on the application icon. It's not part of my workflow at all. The reason probably being that drag and drop was complete garbage for so many years that it became second nature to avoid it and import stuff in other ways. It never seemed to do anything I wanted. If I dragged a picture into an email it became an attachment, not an inline picture. If I dragged a picture into a Word document it would appear as an embedded file represented by a file icon rather than a picture. If I dragged images into Flash, I'd get horrible scaled-down versions that looked completely different from the ones imported via the file menu. And more often than not, it didn't work at all, you'd just get a "nuh-uh" cursor when you hovered with a file over the application window. Only recently when I started to use Mac more have I begun to appreciate drag-and-drop, because it's more consistently implemented than on Windows, but there are still many situations where it either does the wrong thing or nothing at all.

sophtrazor · Post by **sophtrazor** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:46 pm

Its is not a DAW.

Record: New DAW from Propellerheads