Record: New DAW from Propellerheads

[bullshark]

A computer is a room full of refrigerator-sized boxes laden with whirling tape reels, attended by lab-coated priests and priestesses. That's what it meant when I was young, so that's what it means now no matter what else has changed. You wouldn't call a little box on your desk a computer, or a folding thing with built-in keyboard and display, or a pocket-sized device.

But that's an image, not the definition of the term; I don't think the definition of the term computer has changed since then. Sorry to seem pedantic, but you'd probably feel the same were you trying to comprehend and express yourself in a language that is foreign to you, and they kept on changing meaning and rules on you all the time.

[Meffy]

Then take "recorder." One box with two whirling reels. You can't call a tiny RAM-based hand-held item a recorder. Or an applet that runs on a computer.

Or a spreadsheet. They're made of paper, not digital data cells. Start calling a computer program a spreadsheet and soon language will have lost all meaning.

Or a calendar. They're paper too. A calculator is made of sector wheels and pawls and registers, not bits. And on and on.

[Stupid American Pig]

And are you saying that you don't want multiple products on a single key?

No, it was a comment on the irony of Record/Reason sharing a key with VST plugins, it's kinda like shoving a bunch of cats and dogs into a small room and closing the door.

Its good to read that coming from you. I mean honestly why not support VS fecking T?!?!?! They already use Steinbergs ASIO why not support what 99% of home musicians have 99% of their fx in as the ONLY format.

[bullshark]

I've spend the last hour looking at video of the new props product, and I fail to see who their main target audience is.

In one video, they keep saying "it's for musician, not engineer", but then they present to us this gigantic SSE console that would be intimidating even to a budding engineer studying audio at university level. How does that fit?

So, you say to yourself "self, it's for musicians with advance knowledge in audio recording and manipulation". But then, what hit you is that it doesn't have the features that would attract a musician with advance knowledge in audio recording and manipulation.

Maybe I should find a way to get the demo instead of relying on videos, but I get the feeling it isn't for me and, furthermore, I really can't get who this product is made for?

[koolkeys]

I've spend the last hour looking at video of the new props product, and I fail to see who their main target audience is.

Tell me about it! I don't understand how anyone has figured this out yet. I don't even think the Props know.

In one video, they keep saying "it's for musician, not engineer", but then they present to us this gigantic SSE console that would be intimidating even to a budding engineer studying audio at university level. How does that fit?

I mentioned this exact point earlier in this thread, but it seemingly got glazed over. Propellerheads have an identity crisis with Record. It's for the musician, but focuses heavily on the one staple of any recording engineer's work. They don't even know their own product's focus apparently.

So, you say to yourself "self, it's for musicians with advance knowledge in audio recording and manipulation". But then, what hit you is that it doesn't have the features that would attract a musician with advance knowledge in audio recording and manipulation.

What's ironic is that they say it's for musicians, but almost nothing in there is actually focused on musicians except for the fact that it records audio and it has a sample player(in which the sounds aren't even that great really). How is that different than any other host out there(I use the term "host" lightly in the comparison)?

Maybe I should find a way to get the demo instead of relying on videos, but I get the feeling it isn't for me and, furthermore, I really can't get who this product is made for?

Hey, if you think the REAPER workflow is bad, wait till you try Record! LOL!

Brent

[kmonkey]

I really liked video with Dave Spoon on Props site. I am sure he have ton of pro work (i did not check but i am sure) but this is just too funny. He is talking all over the place about "nasty" sound..... and then he hit play - classic

[bullshark]

What's ironic is that they say it's for musicians, but almost nothing in there is actually focused on musicians except for the fact that it records audio and it has a sample player(in which the sounds aren't even that great really). How is that different than any other host out there(I use the term "host" lightly in the comparison)?

Yeah, it's almost as if they took everything that musicians hate and thrown that in, and then they took everything that engineers needs and took that out and then called it a day.

Repeating something, like "it's made for musicians", ad nauseam does not make it true if it's untrue.

The interface is consistent with their other product thought, gotta give them that. If that was their main focus, that's what they should sell it under.

Guess it looks like I'm bashing a product I haven't even tried, but that's the impression I get from videos made by them to sell me on their product, can't help it.

[X-Soul]

And are you saying that you don't want multiple products on a single key?

No, it was a comment on the irony of Record/Reason sharing a key with VST plugins, it's kinda like shoving a bunch of cats and dogs into a small room and closing the door.

Its good to read that coming from you. I mean honestly why not support VS fecking T?!?!?! They already use Steinbergs ASIO why not support what 99% of home musicians have 99% of their fx in as the ONLY format.

I know, they will release ReVST! It will be basic app without anything, but will host VST and can be integrated with Reason or Record seamlessly!

[X-Soul]

I really liked video with Dave Spoon on Props site. I am sure he have ton of pro work (i did not check but i am sure) but this is just too funny. He is talking all over the place about "nasty" sound..... and then he hit play - classic

...and some crappy primitive music starts.

[blank/diod]

I mean honestly why not support VS fecking T?!?!?!

Gotta love the MTV-generation attention span in this thread... I've posted the link to their explanation on why they don't support VST plugins twice in the last few pages, yet ten posts later there's always someone wondering how come they don't support VST.

Again:

- Go here
- Scroll down and read "Plug-ins, part 1"
- Take it or leave it

[christianmusicmaker]

Personally I think Props can call it want they want (it's their product) but they seem terribly scared of comparison with similar applications that also allow you to work with D...igital A...udio in a virtual software W...orkstation.

That aspect doesn't concern them much, people have been listing and lamenting Reason's lack of this or that feature for aeons... the products are out there for everyone to compare to other products so it's not like it's possible to hide anything or make up anyone's mind on what to call stuff.

I just think for synthtopia to have to apologise for calling it a DAW is a bit over the top. They should have let synthtopia make their own minds up about it. It will be very interesting to see what other mags call it in their reviews, CMM are already clalling it a DAW and have a review coming up in their next issue IIRC.

Life goes on of course. It was just a strange thing to read about. I first saw the link on Peter Kirns CDM. He thought the Props went a bit too far in this case as well. Hopefully just a bump on the road to clarifying what /where it's target market really is.

The reason they don't like the term DAW is the middle part, "audio" (not that "digital" and "workstation" are sexy either). To them it's all about music, and referring to music as audio is kinda like referring to humans as meat. It's technically correct, but a bit cold and icky. They want to put the emphasis on what it's really about... emotions, not sound waves. Why? I don't know. Maybe they push the soft values to make more women buy it. Maybe they're pretentious. Maybe they're just insane. But it ties into this whole "for musicians, not engineers" thing. Music is a huge part of their creative process and there's a lot of playing going on in the office, at least half the staff are in one band or the other. I sat opposite the product manager for Record for a few months last year and I rarely saw him without a guitar or bass on his lap, jamming away. They really live by this "music not audio" thing, it's not just some marketing ploy.

blank...I totally get what you are saying there. That makes perfect sense. They just want the perception of their product to be less to do with Audio features and more to do with working with or making Music with Audio AFAICT. The latter does sound better. I get that but I guess some aspects of Record don't really back that up.

But yeah every set up has to try and place their product in the market place and I don't doubt what you say about how many of the Props are musicians. Makes sense.

I think Bullshark makes a pretty good point here...

The interface is consistent with their other product thought, gotta give them that. If that was their main focus, that's what they should sell it under.

Not necessarily Reason 5 (might have been better though) but something like "extend your Reason Rack or system" now that really clicks and would immediately make more sense than their current marketing push. Anyhoo thats my 2 cents worth on the matter

[blank/diod]

I just think for synthtopia to have to apologise for calling it a DAW is a bit over the top. They should have let synthtopia make their own minds up about it.

Well yeah, it was a bit strange, but there was no need for them to be so incredibly apologetic, I mean all Props said was "we'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to Record as a DAW" and Synthopia acted like they had woken up with a horse's head in their bed.

blank...I totally get what you are saying there. That makes perfect sense. They just want the perception of their product to be less to do with Audio features and more to do with working with or making Music with Audio AFAICT. The latter does sound better. I get that but I guess some aspects of Record don't really back that up.

I never said that their intentions translated with 100% success to the final product, that's for others to decide, I'm just explaining where they're coming from with this whole "not a DAW" thing.

Anyway, yeah, it will be interesting to see what the press will say about it. Public reception has been along the usual lines for a Propellerhead product -- polarized and ranging from "what the hell am I supposed to do with this?" to "OMG I'm giving up all my material possessions to live in eternal harmony with Record". Reason got the same kind of best ever/worst ever reception.

[headquest]

I just think for synthtopia to have to apologise for calling it a DAW is a bit over the top. They should have let synthtopia make their own minds up about it.

Well yeah, it was a bit strange, but there was no need for them to be so incredibly apologetic, I mean all Props said was "we'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to Record as a DAW" and Synthopia acted like they had woken up with a horse's head in their bed.

I think the synthtopia "appology" was intended to be totally ironic. In effect, I think they completely *owned* Propellerheads here, showing them up to be pretentious and pompous. I dare say that they will continue to show a good deal of ridicule towards the Props in future, too.

The impression I get is that the Props are desperately trying to justify Record as a unique and innovative product, when in fact it's just an odd product.

As for the whole "musicians not engineers" thing they are spinning... who should be most offended by this jibe? - musicians (are we too stupid or lazy to be engineers?), or engineers (don't they have any musical creativity to contribute to projects?)?

They've basically taken the exact opposite approach to Ableton, who have clearly sought to unify the disciplines of music creation (musicians) and production (engineers), making both accessible and complementary in a forward-looking environment.

[headquest]

The reason they don't like the term DAW is the middle part, "audio" (not that "digital" and "workstation" are sexy either). To them it's all about music, and referring to music as audio is kinda like referring to humans as meat. It's technically correct, but a bit cold and icky. They want to put the emphasis on what it's really about... emotions, not sound waves. Why? I don't know. Maybe they push the soft values to make more women buy it. Maybe they're pretentious. Maybe they're just insane. But it ties into this whole "for musicians, not engineers" thing. Music is a huge part of their creative process and there's a lot of playing going on in the office, at least half the staff are in one band or the other. I sat opposite the product manager for Record for a few months last year and I rarely saw him without a guitar or bass on his lap, jamming away. They really live by this "music not audio" thing, it's not just some marketing ploy.

blank...I totally get what you are saying there. That makes perfect sense.

No, surely not? Music is dots on manuscript paper. Music is playing instruments. Music is the sound of a dawn chorus in a forest as nature wakes up in the morning. Music is the sneezing and burps coming from the audience during a performance of John Cage's 4'33". Music can also be audio files manipulated for creative effect (you know, the stuff those pesky engineers get up to).

Music is a whole, wonderful, amazing range of things, most of which Propellerhead Record doesn't do.

Audio on the other hand is something that Record DOES do. It does the recording part in a fairly standard way. It can be used to do the mixing really well, especially if you are one of those pesky engineers who likes huge mixing consoles but can't afford one. And it does editing... well, no it doesn't actually.

Saying that Record is about "music" not "audio" is nothing more than a deliberate distraction, a sleight of hand to explain away the glaring lack of audio recording features that version 1 has. I would say it's almost an insult to the inteligence to be honest.

Mate, you know that I have been a big advocate for the Props here over the years, and very enthusiastic about Reason. I've used it loads and given professional training courses in it. But the way the Props have handled this new product, and the plain bullsh*t they are coming up with now is just... perplexing.

Not necessarily Reason 5 (might have been better though)

Initially I liked that they made Record a different product, and there seemed to be a rationale for that. Then I tried using it, and realised that the only real strength it has is that it integrates audio into Reason. So I think if it had been Reason 5 that would have been far better, plus it would have created different and perhaps more realistic expectations.

[fceramic]

Agree with headquest. It should have just been Reason 5. If they just threw in a new drumsampler and a chord device it would have been a perfectly worthy upgrade.