KVR Audio

antto · Post by **antto** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:21 pm

D1J1T: um, no.. i said i've submitted my "bandlimited mip-map wave table thing"
it's a piece of code that can generate a basic sawtooth or square wave into a wavetable
the filter that i use in the last few demos is indeed the filter from the dsp section (kvr), i haven't submitted it anywhere..
tho it sound very close to the moog code from musicdsp.. and it's not exactly a digital 303 emulation at all, as far as i know, the first pole should be with a different location, thus making the rest pole locations a lot more complicated, the code i use has the same locations for all poles (like a moog filter)

antto · Post by **antto** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:39 am

i touched the gimmick circuit again.. i think it's better now (better than in the last two audio demos)
also, now the "normal-slide-to-accented" thing works a little different
if there is such a thing in a pattern, the gimmick on that step might be heard, or not.. it depentds on the decay of the "normal" note before it
if it's short - the gimmick will be tiny
when the normal note's envelope hasn't yet decayed - the gimmick will be stronger
it's something like an "accent surpise" ;]
i am definately not sure if that effect is in the original TB-303 but i'll keep it anyways.. you can always _not_ add accents after a normal slided note if you don't like it.. ;]
here's the demo:
vb303_misc03.mp3
in the first part, the pattern has 2 normal accents, and one between them that is a "surpise" ;]
the second pattern doesn't have any hidden accents, it has a tape delay
"Classic Delay" from kjaerhus audio - a really wonderful delay line

EDIT: forgot to mention, i also changed the envmod range..
it seems the original TB-303 filter can go up to around 30KHz when both envmod and cutoff are high.. i can't say exactly, because the audio materials i use are 44100Hz so i can't see what's going on above 22050Hz, but i can see clearly that the envelope falls from far above that.. ;]
the second pattern in the demo shows the max envmod range
also, i was limmiting the minumum cutoff of the filter at around 100Hz, while the original TB-303 cutoff can go far below, so i changed that too (25Hz now), now the envelopes look almost the same on a FFT ;]

antto · Post by **antto** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:55 pm

i found some more bugs, mainly in the sequencer, and fixed them
first post was updated (bugfix/todo list)
the pattern randomizer (both the random button, and the "To All" + "Invert" combo) is now better i think, now more slides occure, and step length is almost always 4/8, and Pitch is now limited to C2-C5 (for the randomizer only)
..the PRNG itself was modified a little too

i think i'll try to make that FreeBee pattern export thing now ;]
EDIT: done, hm.. now that was easy
added FreeBee pattern format to the Save Pattern file dialog, the sequencer will remember the selection there too

xybre · Post by **xybre** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:31 am

Cool! You planning on writing a new filter? :p

Pacha · Post by **Pacha** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:20 am

antto wrote:i found some more bugs, mainly in the sequencer, and fixed them
first post was updated (bugfix/todo list)

Can you give us intermediate versions for general testing? =)

antto · Post by **antto** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:51 am

xybre: no, this sort-of-303 filter that i use now (in the last few demos) is great
also i figured, that even if i put a dumb, cheap, old, funny 12dB State Variable filter, with only the right resonance level across the spectrum - it'll still sound damn 303 ;]
it's not so important what the filter is, it's what drives the cutoff ;]
anyways, currently there are this 303 filter, a moog filter, and my old filter (with fixed oversampling bug) 24dB version, which now sounds how it should have sounded in the beta
actually the "303" filter i am saying is not a real digital 303 emulation at all
it's more of a variation of the moog filter, but i've added some dirty stuff and it sound a little different than the moog filter, and most important - i *love* it
i think i'll leave the moog tho, it has a bit more reso in the high freqs
i'll also modify my old 24dB filter too, it's still interesting, the other two filters use global inverted feedback, mine uses sort-of-a-band-pass feedback which is different

Pacha: well, hm.. ;]
i can, but you have to now some things first
i've changed the VST ID code a little, so i can work on the new version as a different VST while being able to load the beta version in the DAW too
but when this version is ready, the VST ID will be turned back, and it will collide with the beta (same ID) ..
you may play with it, but please don't make any serious projects with it, since it will be changed more and more, and you won't be able to reopen the projects with the final version (not only the VST ID will be different, but the VST parameters too)
but i gotta do some stuff before that
the moog filter and my old filter need to be modified again, to sound/behave like the sort-of-303 filter
and the new scream distortion type has to be fixed a little, turning the DIST knob to 0 is clipping really hard, should be no clipping at that level

i had an idea today.. on the first slide note, the step length is actually never used, i could make a "special" slide mode if step length is 1/8 for example
where the slide will begin instantly (which is non-303, but still might be cool sometimes)

EDIT: i uploaded this ~11 minute demo, playing with the new randomizer (i'm pressing the pattern randomize button)
might be a bit boring.. ;]
vb303_randomizer.mp3
btw, the last pattern is nice ;]

loopdon · Post by **loopdon** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:00 am

Sounds like a really cool project you have going on here.

TUMBS UP!

antto · Post by **antto** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:42 pm

loopdon: thanks ;]

i made the "special" slide thing on the sequencer
now if the first slided note has a steplength of 1/8 - it will be slided right there (which is not 303, but it's interesting anyway)

now i examined an old "defect?" of the sequencer, a step with gate OFF but slide ON does affect the next note, if it has gate ON (slides with a "punch" or something)
i think this "defect" is in the beta version too
BUT, you can create drum-like sounds with it (actually kicks)
so i think i'll leave it
and i had a little fun with it:
vb303_drum.mp3
what do you think? ;]

xybre · Post by **xybre** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:30 pm

Hey thats sick lol, crazy sounds, I'm pretty sure it wasn't intended to ever make that noise man, thats awesome. We call 'em "happy accidents"

antto · Post by **antto** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:48 pm

yeah, it's a "mistake" in my sequencer, but i'll keep it

antto · Post by **antto** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:59 am

found another bug (it's in the beta too, damn) first post updated
FreeBee patterns with less than 16 steps are not loaded (sequencer thinks they are incomplete)

i tryied to fix the small desync issue, i can't..
for example, make a big 1 step long note in the piano-roll of your sequencer (in the DAW)
then add small 1 step-long notes on every second place (with another pitch) (argh, i can't explain it with words)
what has to be done is: trigger pattern 77 (for example) at first, then try to make the synth play each other note from pattern 78
in the piano-roll, it'll look like a long note triggering pattern77 (16steps long) and 8 small notes triggering pattern 78

now this would work in most cases because of this desync
when the first long note starts, the synth plays pattern 77 from the start
right when it'll read step2 of the pattern - in the piano-roll there is the first small note that triggers pattern 78
but because of the desync, the host sends the note "a little later"
the sequencer has already got to step2 and it was pattern77 then

otherwise, the tempo synchronization to the host is good
so, a solution would be, to lay any note that is after the first long note that triggers the pattern a little earlier
in this example the small notes (for pattern78) could be moved a little to the left
i won't waste more time to fix it, i can't at this point
so, i'll document this issue too

new: now NSM (memory) files can be loaded (optionaly) without overwriting the current ClipBoard memory, so you can copy a pattern, then open some NSM file, paste the pattern there, and save the NSM again (tho, you'll replace the clipboard of that NSM file with the current pattern, i can add a switch for this too)

new: current step selector, now it can be restricted to move only within the used steps (optionaly)
if the pattern is 8 steps long, and you press Next, it'll go: ..5..6..7..8..1..2..3..

BFunKu · Post by **BFunKu** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:14 am

I must say I'm rather impressed with this! If you weren't trying to emulate the synth 100% you sure nailed it on the Step-Sequencer. That's the best emulation of a TB-303 step-sequencer I've seen. It's got all the nuisances and quirks of the real deal. You obviously know what your doing that's for sure. And the sound is actually rather close in some instances too. But seeing that your version has 2 Oscillators instead of just the one that a TB-303 has it sounds a bit fatter/thicker obviously. It's kind of like ABL Pro without the Modulation possibilities in a way. ABL Pro has two Oscs instead of one. I'm sure your familiar with or have heard of it at least? Anyhow Well done. This is easily the Best Freeware TB-303 emulation in VSTi format in my opinion anyway. Rebirth, Rubberduck and Subtek Bassline aren't VSTis. So they don't count. Their all just a little different in their own little way anyway. And that's a great thing by the way. If every TB-303 emulation/inspiration sounded the same that would just be boring and pointless. Wouldn't it? I sure as hell think so. And to be honest not one TB-303 emulation sounds identical to the next. Or some might argue the real thing for that matter.

antto · Post by **antto** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:33 pm

BFunKu wrote:I must say I'm rather impressed with this! If you weren't trying to emulate the synth 100% you sure nailed it on the Step-Sequencer. That's the best emulation of a TB-303 step-sequencer I've seen. It's got all the nuisances and quirks of the real deal. You obviously know what your doing that's for sure. And the sound is actually rather close in some instances too. But seeing that your version has 2 Oscillators instead of just the one that a TB-303 has it sounds a bit fatter/thicker obviously. It's kind of like ABL Pro without the Modulation possibilities in a way. ABL Pro has two Oscs instead of one. I'm sure your familiar with or have heard of it at least? Anyhow Well done. This is easily the Best Freeware TB-303 emulation in VSTi format in my opinion anyway. Rebirth, Rubberduck and Subtek Bassline aren't VSTis. So they don't count. Their all just a little different in their own little way anyway. And that's a great thing by the way. If every TB-303 emulation/inspiration sounded the same that would just be boring and pointless. Wouldn't it? I sure as hell think so. And to be honest not one TB-303 emulation sounds identical to the next. Or some might argue the real thing for that matter.

hey, thanks for the good words!
i am not trying to "emulate" the thing in a "circuit" manner, i don't have a lab or big pile of money to spend for research (like for example, to buy a real tb-303)
what i am trying to do is make this synth able to sound close, as much as possible (as i can) to a tb-303
yeah, i spent a lot of time over that sequencer, i understand now, that the 303 sound is about maybe 50% because of the sequencer itself, not just a "real good filter"
yeah, i can tell i know what i'm doing now, i got infected with the acid sound and i see "303" everywhere (it's a little scary)

um, 2 Oscs = fatter, actually the second Osc is Off by default (that's an extra feature that i added)
i haven't seen ABL Pro, i've played with ABL 1.5 (i think)

yeah, two tb-303 almost always sound a little bit different from each other
so there is a little freedom for guys like me
i agree that it's good that there are so many emulations, because everyone has he's own taste, and the perfect sound for his tracks might just be the TS-404 or the FR777..
i just don't like how some (generaly buyware) emulations advertise themselves with strong words, while actually missing some very simple features of the tb-303
but anyways, i think that the people who *really* know the real 303 sound will be able to hear which emulation of them all is the closest one
in my head, that's ABL (and i know what it does, and what it misses, so i know..)
for freewares, that would definately be ReBirth (i'm excluding mine) and the number 2 in that chart is waaay far from the 303 sound (even that #1 is sooo old, that always amazes me)

thanks for the great words, again ;]

musikmachine · Post by **musikmachine** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:45 am

Is the gui supposed to be small? I can barely read it.

JediMind · Post by **JediMind** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:57 am

That's already been debated. antto said he would work on it but only after he'll be pleased with the sound and behavior of the synth.

Give him some time

Link: Venom VB-303 VSTi (Beta release)