The Big IK Multimedia Announcement

[buscemi]

I don't want to double-post what I did in the other thread but I did have some more ideas. We really aren't 100% the target market. We can, however, look at creative ways to use this product - there are always folks out there using "consumer" products with pro audio results. Or we could ask whether IK is looking for content creators since we have a good bunch of talented folks here. Though I'm saying this in the company forum of one of those content creators - sorry, Squids! You can handle the competition and you got in the door first anyway hehe.

Also, I have the free version and would love to see some more styles I'm more interested in. But I'm thinking it might be fun to export to our DAW machines where we can use all our fantastic tools and mangle the crap out of it. T-Racks Singles vs GrooveMaker, anyone? "Attack of the Fairchild" perhaps? The latter is what I was calling a mix I did that I performed a bit of Fairchild squashy-squash on just last night. I thought I'd hate it the morning after but I actually quite liked it overall. Anyway, we could use tools like that to make this into an app that makes things others cannot - even with clever editing post-export since we ourselves are the best tools in the box, after all.

[hydemusic]

The reality is that there are all kinds of music creators out there though and one method isn't more valid than the next. To each his own. Groove Maker and other iPhone apps make a bit of music making more accessible to a wider audience. Nothing wrong with that! It's up to each person if they use it and don't choose to explore learning instruments further. The reality is that it reaches more people though and usually does lure them into our world of musical instruments and "gear".

I have to agree with you. Because of the masses out there, the interest also brings the price down so we all benefit directly and indirectly. Having choices is wonderful. Just as sequencers. One person loves brand X and another might hate it. Humans are not robots but like choices. Loops are no different. We do make it easy to accomplish musical virtuosity! I don't want to sound snobbish about playing ability because I'm not Mr Roboto by any means but do have an understanding though. The ability and means are out there, I would think that those who take the time to further and understand will ultimately be at the forefront of their game. But that's not the purpose of marketing and sales to begin with.

[buscemi]

Oh, and before the first price drop/sale happens and we hear the "devalued product" stuff thrown around, it happens with iPhone apps EVERY SINGLE DAY. There are apps dedicated to tracking the daily drops in price and similar promotions. Just to let people know, before the moaning begins if IK decides to do what almost every other iPhone app dev has or will do.

[hibidy]

My issue with it is that it is not an everyone product like the teaser said. I have not nor will I ever own an iphone

[Squids]

My issue with it is that it is not an everyone product like the teaser said. I have not nor will I ever own an iphone

Well, practically "everyone" does have an iPhone these days in general. I gave in myself and even worse I bought the first one and then the 3G one... and now there's a 3GS but MAN!!!!!!!!! STOP! Haha. So no 3GS or 3GSS or 3GSXT+ for me. I am happy with my 3G.

I think the main thing about it being for "everyone" though was that any musician from beginner to pro could use it.

[Squids]

Okay, I am going to post this in all of the various Groove Maker/IK threads about the subject so you guy can hopefully not miss it. As someone who will be making sounds for Groove Maker (we haven't yet but plan to), I want to tell you how the KVRian might appreciate such an innovative gadget as this Groove Maker.

First, I don't argue what you say about the marketing hype. You've all made some good points and I agree with some of them. I don't think too many disagree that sometimes hype can backfire. It happens.

But moving on from that initial disappointment that it isn't a new plug-in or DAW or something we usually see around here... it is in fact something that has a particular purpose and potential appeal to all kinds of music makers and it'd be a shame if you missed that so I'll tell you some things I know about it.

Some people think it is just a loop player where you can assign 8 loops to 8 pads and that's it. That would be wrong. The thing that makes it more than just a loop player is the particular scheme in which it can randmoize amongst 63 different loops sub divided by 8 instrument categories. So you have about 9 loops in each category (Drums, Bass, Leads etc.). They can be combined in various ways QUICKLY to be able to have over a million different combinations. It gets you there quickly using the various controls and the fact that your finger turning those controls off in real time (as opposed to a mouse on the computer which is just not the same in terms of "performance" enjoyment, speed, interaction etc.) makes it not only fun but something that can be used as a loop performance tool or simply something that can be used to get ideas quickly... it would take someone FOREVER to do that in LIVE or ProTools etc. To hear loops play in so many combinations like that? Forget it. That is what that patent is. That is the part that makes this more than just a basic loop player.

Now, okay, so some of you don't like the limitation of it just working with a particular library. It's limiting to an extent... but then again it is only $10 which is the price of a loop library with that many loops (4 "songs" X 63 loops each... a good deal for that many loops actually!). But, okay, what if you could put in your OWN loops too and do FAST remixes by combining your loops with various loop packs? To me that's pretty useful especially on the go or if you need to make music on the fly somewhere or you're on a plane and want to just mess around... again at this price it doesn't have to go under the same scrutiny as a $300 plug-in... but, look the reality is that we KNOW that at least 50% of you guys DO in fact use loops!!!!! So, if you do and this technology can be a shortcut to hearing thousands of loops in different combinations according to the randomization schemes and other interactive elements in it... well at least as a fun gadget to PLAY with let alone actually use for ideas or final composition or production... it has its appeal! Get it yourself and dig into it. Maybe you'll see what I mean when I say it is more than meets the eye.

[Jus11]

well at least as a fun gadget to PLAY with let alone actually use for ideas or final composition or production...

I tried it and after couple of hours, it feels like a plastic toy, in good and in bad.

The good: nice for childish experimentation...
The bad: ...until you get bored of the overall sound of it.

As a tool of creativity... well... if there only was a chance for that. As the number and style of loops is so restricted, everyone relying much on this toy will end up sounding the same, with just some minor variation.

That's not creativity, only industrial rationality posing as creativity.

However, IK could make it a real tool of creativity by opening it up, by "jailbreaking" it. That is to say, users should be able to use their own wavs.

The hype "for everyone, everywhere, the reinvention of music making" (or whatever) appears now as very boastful, sorry to say. Oh well, perhaps we should not have forgot for even a while the fact that IK is, after all, a company marketing their products. Advertisements are not the kind of information one should trust

[Squids]

Actually, they totally messed up with that line "Reinventing music making" more than you guys know. IK is from Italy and English is not the native language so sometimes what you read is not meaning what you think it does. Usually the US marketing division of IK catches it but I've seen a few things slip through the cracks and this is one of them. That line was SUPPOSED to mean that they were hinting about the FIRST Groove Maker application being REBORN as a new music making tool with a twist - the portability and real time surface control of an iPhone! The fact that it was for "everybody" meant that it was not only highly affordable but so easy that anyone could use it!!!

So, there's no question that not only was there a bit too much hype (obviously) but it even appeared to be MORE pretentious than it was intending to be. Woops! Oh well. Mistakes can happen. I once saw a Native Instruments printed advertisement (that probably cost some $$$) that said "Make the Impossible Impossible" as the tag. For SURE it was supposed to say POSSIBLE!!!!! But you know... things happen. It can be a little embarrassing but what can you do? You move on. As the owner of Sonic Reality I've had my fair share of embarrassing mistakes too.

But, all that aside, the app itself still has its appeal and what I just want to make sure is that everyone does realize what its potential is. To say it is plastic or like a toy is underestimating it. To think that it is no big deal because it is inexpensive and on a phone is also selling it short! If you consider that to get multi-touch surface controllers previously we had things like the Continuum Fingerboard (which I own... but it costs $5,000!!!! Granted... it can do a LOT more but still... $5k!). Then there was the LeMur which was thousands. Now, holy crap! For a few bucks per app you can use your PHONE to do it? Incredible. To me that is awesome because I LOVE all sorts of alternate controllers for music. I'm into that. So the potential with iPhones is VERY interesting to me.

Now, there are all sorts of interesting (or at least FUN) iPhone apps for music. If you're not into the iPhone then it is a completely different conversation!!!!! That's a whole other philosophy to discuss. But, if we can put those discussions aside and talk with people like myself and many people I know that DO have the iPhone and ARE intereted in what sort of music tools it could work with... well, then we have something productive to discuss! One of the guys here was doing the math and I had previously said you could do over 1 million combinations with 63 loops that can be played over each other. But, out of curiosity we decided to do some math and it revealed that it's actually 4,501,777,128 unique combinations. Technically speaking. That is pretty deep!

But, anyway, bottom line is that if you wanted to get the Groove Maker packs that exist now you'd have tons of possibilities but they are tied to those loop collections and for $10 it is a great deal for the loops alone so... go buy it if you like the style. However, if you understand the concept of what I am saying and add in the ability to also bring in your OWN loops in the not too distant future... well, that starts to get REALLY interesting for real time remixing. But that's my opinion. It's all still relative here. Again we're not talking about a $300 plug-in like we usually do! It is not as hard a decision. This is fun! But it can be used professionally and creatively. Okay, less so than playing your own parts with SampleTank or manipulating loops with effects in a DAW (you snobby experts!!!! haha just kidding) but... it is still valid and FUN so... why not?

[Jus11]

To say it is plastic or like a toy is underestimating it.

Well, perhaps it is a reaction to the over-estimating hype. IK (whose products I usually like very much) was kind of asking for it

Anyway, let me put it this way: playing with this for me feels exactly like playing with some plastic musical toy (with taped music, for instance) would feel like, if I was a child (and I know that because I've been one). First, it feels kind of magical, but pretty soon one gets bored because of the lack of imaginative and creative possibilities. By "lack" I mean that too much has been decided beforehand. Too much has to be taken as given. And that is despite the "millions" of possible combinations. To have a "choice" within the limits of very restricted material does not mean artistic freedom.

Of course you're right that there is a lot of possibilities implied: multi-touch surface controller, and as said, the forthcoming(?) possibility of playing with one's own loop collections and self-made loops. The concept may be taken further, obviously. BUT with 63 (or 630, or 6300) loops of the same "songs" (in Groovemaker) that EVERYBODY is playing with, it will sound like the very same thing repeated over and over again (nightmare!). Especially if they believe the hype (also by you, Squids) and think that mingling and re-mingling the same loops over and over again will bring one to the edge of great artistic creativity.

Having said that, I really am interested in the possibilities of this concept (that's why I tried it!) and I'm hoping I will be able to call it creative - after the possibilities mentioned above are here for real. First step, let us repeat: a possibility to use one's existing collections and self-made loops.

[hydemusic]

The fact that it was for "everybody" meant that it was not only highly affordable but so easy that anyone could use it!!!...

At least they didn't say "so easy even a caveman can do it"

[marre]

I'm quite interested in the technology behind Groovemaker (as I do use loops and like to cut them up, layer them, randomize etc.). Therefore I hope that some of the functionality will be included in a future version of Sampletank.

[mike1k]

Well, practically "everyone" does have an iPhone these days in general. .

Yikes! I DON'T have an iphone (probably never will)

I wonder if there is some sort of therapy or counseling available for me

[hibidy]

Well, practically "everyone" does have an iPhone these days in general. .

Yikes! I DON'T have an iphone (probably never will)

I wonder if there is some sort of therapy or counseling available for me

Maybe it's an italy/florida thing

No really, everyone......and I mean EVERYone DOES have a cell phone, but I hardly ever see iphones.

[Mr. Tunes]

i don't have an iphone yet, but i do want an ipod touch in the future.

the app looks interesting, even though i still don't know much about the inner mechanics of it.

i just feel though that it should've been launched and marketed with the vision that it is open off the bat, and maybe could've been launched with some artist packs.

an indie artist has a hard time selling one mp3 these days, but if they released a groovemaker iphone pack they would sell more than the music itself. or giving away free packs of your music is a great promo tool.

[Cap'n Spanky]

Well, practically "everyone" does have an iPhone these days in general. .

Yikes! I DON'T have an iphone (probably never will)

I wonder if there is some sort of therapy or counseling available for me

I have NO NEED for an iphone and neither do a lot of people who own them. I find this obsession with pissing large chunks money away on the latest gadget (just to be cool) quite assinine! Sorry... no offence to anyone.

And yes, I admit they are cool. I also understand the how exciting these hand held technologies are becoming... and I give Apple a lot of credit for moving the ball forward, at least in the public's perception.

But c'mon... practically everyone has one. That's so trite sounding it makes my skin crawl.