keith jarrett on melody

[jopy]

I'm sort of having my mind blown by the following melodic concept:

There was a class on melody when I went to Berklee school, I didn't learn anything in that class but I thought it was an immensely innovative idea. I already felt I knew what melody was and what good melody was. It was held by a guitarist and I can't think of his name; I think he was from the Southwest. The deal was, you'd go in and it was like a melody class, melody writing. And it was like 'Jeez, what's this about?' And that was exactly the point. It was boring in its concept but it provoked the awareness that … in other words, if you need to be made conscious of something, the only way to do that is by finding how bad you are at it. One of the first exercises we were given was eight bars and you could only use whole notes and half notes and you're supposed to write a melody and bring it in.

It's almost what I'd tell piano students, they'd play a lot of licks I could tell they were not coming from them; they were coming from mechanical patterns. And they would say, 'How do you do what you do?' And I would say, 'Don't even ask that question. Ask yourself why do you do what you do? Do you like what you just played or not?' 'Well no. Not really' And I'd say, 'Okay, I want you to play a fifth in your left hand, C and G, any fifth, anywhere, in your left hand. And just wait, and if you don't hear anything in your head to play, don't start playing. And when you do start playing, if it's not something you like, stop.' And they come back and say, 'You know, I never discover anything I like and I wait forever and nothing happens and nothing goes through my head.' And I'd go, 'Okay, that's the first stage. Keep doing it.'

Just thought I'd share that in case anyone else finds it inspirational. It's from a longer interview here:

http://jazz.com/features-and-interviews ... th-jarrett

[Ogg Vorbis]

I'm sort of having my mind blown by the following melodic concept:

That's very cool. Many times I play or search for new ideas by sitting at the keyboard and allowing my fingers to do whatever they want to do. But I catch them doing many of the same old patterns because that's what they "know."

But the mind (of the composer AND then audience) is connected to authentic melody. Sometimes I hear a cat like (omitted name of keyboard hero) or (omitted name of banjo jam band hero) play very complicated stuff but if I sit back and ask, "what are they really PLAYING?" then it sounds like a bunch of notes most of the time.

Maybe even chops can become a substitute for authentic melody. Maybe it's a common pitfall of improvised music?

It must take an enormous amount of inner discipline to only play things that you've imagined. My worst fear is, "what if my imagination is empty? What if I actually have nothing to say?"

[jopy]

It must take an enormous amount of inner discipline to only play things that you've imagined. My worst fear is, "what if my imagination is empty? What if I actually have nothing to say?"

Indeed, that's exactly what scares me in thinking about this. Questions like "Why did you play that? Did you like what you just did?" really can create some incredible existential anxiety--but I'd imagine that's also where all the real learning comes from.

[Ogg Vorbis]

It must take an enormous amount of inner discipline to only play things that you've imagined. My worst fear is, "what if my imagination is empty? What if I actually have nothing to say?"

Indeed, that's exactly what scares me in thinking about this. Questions like "Why did you play that? Did you like what you just did?" really can create some incredible existential anxiety--but I'd imagine that's also where all the real learning comes from.

Yes, I think so! Some real learning happens when I can stare into the abyss and face it. But most of the time I don't push it because there's always an excuse of a "deadline."

And I certainly don't like to "just sit" and wait for the notes to show up. Horrors!

[pgvpgv333]

It is so easy to hide behind some fast played notes, once you got the chops. But like somebody said, dont play something that you already know. Play what you never played before, that scarry, and very educational.

[xybre]

I'm one of those bastards who has never taken a meaningful music class and I took maybe one piano lesson when I was a kid. I don't know anything about what you're supposed to play, what people practice doing. I'm not making classical or pop either though.

I only play notes I like, if I don't like them, why the hell would I play them? Sometimes it takes some doing to get the notes in my head onto the keyboard (or screen) because I don't have that classical training backing me up. Sometimes I just play notes semi-randomly and listen for combinations I like. Sometimes I record the session, or record the midi output and play it back, then cut out pieces I like and figure them out after the fact.

Maybe those things could be helpful to you also?

[Download SOphist]

My worst fear is, "what if my imagination is empty? What if I actually have nothing to say?"

my take on that is: i don't have anything meaningful to say, but i can't stop talking out loud... music just makes my head spin, and i keep grumbling until i find beauty and/or interest in something i accidentlly stumbled upon. i have to keep it simple... i have nothing to give the piano but honesty.

[Ogg Vorbis]

my take on that is: i don't have anything meaningful to say, but i can't stop talking out loud...

That reminds me of one of my favorite John Cage quotes, "I have nothing to say, and I am saying it."

[Download SOphist]

That reminds me of one of my favorite John Cage quotes, "I have nothing to say, and I am saying it."

that's as witty as they come

[jancivil]

my take on that is: i don't have anything meaningful to say, but i can't stop talking out loud...

That reminds me of one of my favorite John Cage quotes, "I have nothing to say, and I am saying it."

"Nothing is what I want, a true zen saying..." Dummy Up/Frank Zappa


the mechanics of operating an appliance such as an instrument can really replace using your ear; some people just play fingerings, basically. I would say to sing melody before playing or at least during 'invention'. Find phenomena in the sonority and reveal these.

[Moe Shinola]

I do ambient-ish guitar music in odd tunings with capos, and I always start by just playing around, and it's just like Michaelangelo said about carving the David statue out of the block of marble, "I let David out". The more I play with an idea, the more completely it manifests until it's all there. I'm discovering it, not writing it.

[MadPsyance]

I would say to sing melody before playing or at least during 'invention'. Find phenomena in the sonority and reveal these.

Bingo! I always thought it important to try to get melody out of my head, rather than out of my fingers. Melody that comes from the fingers is usually just muscle memory in action. An easy way to get it out of your head is to sing/whistle/hum random stuff into a tape recorder, then try to play what you've recorded. You will find melody that break old patterns in your muscle memory.

After all, we've been using our voice much longer than we're been using our instruments. Doesn't it make sense that the voice is a faster vehicle from imagination to reality? I would assume the goal of any musician or songwriter would be to make the vehicle of instrument just as efficient.

[Ogg Vorbis]

I would say to sing melody before playing or at least during 'invention'. Find phenomena in the sonority and reveal these.

Bingo! I always thought it important to try to get melody out of my head, rather than out of my fingers. Melody that comes from the fingers is usually just muscle memory in action. An easy way to get it out of your head is to sing/whistle/hum random stuff into a tape recorder, then try to play what you've recorded. You will find melody that break old patterns in your muscle memory.

After all, we've been using our voice much longer than we're been using our instruments. Doesn't it make sense that the voice is a faster vehicle from imagination to reality? I would assume the goal of any musician or songwriter would be to make the vehicle of instrument just as efficient.

Another dimension is starting from improvising or "noodling." I think we've all had the experience of one of those "happy accidents" when finger-farting around. You catch a spark of an idea and it's like, "what the hell did I just play??? That was awesome!"

It takes a lot of self-discipline to walk away from the instrument and allow your imagination to develop the spark of the idea rather than continue to digitally masturbate it into life.

So improvising can lead to the initiation of an idea, but for me it seldom yields good development of an idea.

[MikeInOttawa]

Another great thread that could go in many directions.

I've often thought that having a formal musical training may often constrict a composer's thought processes; their training conditions them to think in only certain ways, whereas a composer without formal training does not have these mental constraints and is thus freed to think more creatively. Of course that can mean they also don't have the tools with which to expand their ideas.

[MadPsyance]

[quote="Ogg Vorbis"
Another dimension is starting from improvising or "noodling." I think we've all had the experience of one of those "happy accidents" when finger-farting around. You catch a spark of an idea and it's like, "what the hell did I just play??? That was awesome!"
[/quote]

Yep, I think that lately my tracks are averaging out to half "mind compositions" and half "finger farting". If I'm doing electronica with the composition based around timbre, the song mostly ends up as expanded happy accidents. And some of the mechanical sounding loops are mostly piano roll clicking hoping for that great happy accident. If I'm doing more of a rock/pop structure, I definitely try to come up with the melody before hand.