Tuning your Drum/percussive parts in dance music to match the songs original KEY??

[Jay Smith]

Hi all,

was just wondering how you all go about tuning your kick, hats, snare etc to match your projects root key,

I understand Ultrabeat in logic has a feature that enables you to do such a thing and wondered if there was any other easier way other than ultrabeat, although i havent tried the ultrabeat way.

any ideas, a program/plug that does the magic!

thanks

Jay

[DJ_Schoolcraft]

Maybe I don't understand, but I usually don't tune my percussion instruments.

I'm sure that simply changing the pitch of the instrument might do the trick...? Or maybe auto-tuning it might work.

Sorry if I wasn't helpful,
-Schoolcraft

[jupiter8]

Most drums don't have a discernible pitch which makes this an exercise in futility. Plus it's a rather daft idea to begin with if you ask me.

[tehlord]

Well I wouldn't say it's something i've ever worried about too much, but tuning a kick can sometimes help move it about in the mix a bit to suit the track a bit better or sit with the bassline etc.

On the other hand you could just choose a better suited kick in the first place.

[Steve555]

Hi all,

was just wondering how you all go about tuning your kick, hats, snare etc to match your projects root key,

I understand Ultrabeat in logic has a feature that enables you to do such a thing and wondered if there was any other easier way other than ultrabeat, although i havent tried the ultrabeat way.

any ideas, a program/plug that does the magic!

thanks

Jay

Ditto the above, but if you did want to establish a pitch, map the sample across the keyboard and play a scale, and the perceived note will become apparent. There's a lot of housey kick samples tuned to a G[49hz], the idea being that it's the lowest key for a subby kick most half-decent systems will play back consistently.
But tuning of hi-hats is probably only going to worry dogs

[thecontrolcentre]

just wondering how you all go about tuning your kick, hats, snare etc to match your projects root key

I don't ... and I don't know anyone who does.

[cryophonik]

Yeah, I've "re-tuned" some of my drums before to give them some beef, clear out some mud, make them sit better in the mix, etc., but I don't try to tune them to the key of the song - that makes little sense IMO. And, think about it - when is the last time you saw a drummer re-tune his kit to the key of the next song during a live show?

[MaliceX]

I tune my drumsounds.... but they serve as percussive melodies.

[ecsmix]

Hey Jay, I had this same doubt some time ago.
You can use the search and it will come out with some posts.
Usually people use Melodyne and the most important element to be in key with your bassline is your kick, off course the rest of your percussion would be good also.
One technic I use besides Melodyne is an audio analyser, with that you can find out the fundamental frequency of any element and then find it chromatically to which key it corresponds.

ex: A5(5 being the octave) is 440 hz.
98 hz is G2 -kicks frequency
82 hz is E2

If you are doing a song in G major and your kick is in C#, I don't think will sound as good as it was on G or in D(fifth).
Use a sampler to tune your one shot samples(in semitones).
On that example kick being in C#2 = 69.30HZ add one semitone to go to D2 = 77.78.

I heard people saying that what matters are the low frequencies to be in key or same note of the bassline, so if you layer your kick(hi/low parts), only the low part needs to be in key, some people uses a sine wave from any synth, so just use the same note as your bassline.

More theory here:
http://www.apronus.com/music/lessons/unit01.htm

Hope that helps you.

[cryophonik]

Or, you could use your ears.

One of the reasons I don't like to tune many of my drum/percussion elements to the key (or related key) of the track is that you can lose a lot of punch. The harmonic dissonance that occurs in the fundamentals and overtones is what helps the drive the drums.

OTOH, if you're having issues with low frequencies clashing (a common issue), it's pretty simple to re-tune your kick (or use an EQ). Most drum samplers these days have a tune parameter and all you usually need to do is tweak it a bit until the problem is cleared up - there's no need to take it into Melodyne.

[Jay Smith]

Many thanks to all who replied,

to those who dont agree and think its silly well i was merely reflecting on John 'OO' Flemings computer-music magazines producers master class, he basically talks about tuning conga, tom toms, hats etc
and talks about tuning to the correct key of the track.

for anyone who has the CD its around 3.25mins in.

For those who gave advice many thanks.

[jancivil]

just wondering how you all go about tuning your kick, hats, snare etc to match your projects root key

I don't ... and I don't know anyone who does.

I do it occasionally, not necessarily to match root key, or notes but more subtle things, colors. I don't retune cymbals, but choose cymbals according to the arrangement. I'm more likely personally to tune, or to damp toms. I don't need to do it all the time, but I have a LOT of choices in my set up to obviate a lot of things.
EG., I have some kicks I use a lot which fit with certain things I do. It's not going to sound good in all things.
There are keys which things like timbales won't sound that great in, it has to be approached, kind of with tuning in mind, but it's not like tuning a piano or a guitar really, it's more subtle.


A drummer tunes drums, and with a LOT of care. A percussionist tunes percussion... and this is going to vary oftimes according to context, ie., the rest of the instrumentation. The difference between a good drummer's or good percussionist's sound has something to do with how well tuned the kit is. It's something real.

For instance, if the tone of the kick really jars with the tone of the bass, it's something very noticeable and not usually in a good way.

A drum is an indefinite pitch. To say tuned to a single note is kind of a moot distinction.

[Tony Ostinato]

so would you change pitch on the drums to match the songs chord changes as well?

what if the song is in E but the bridge is in C, as in aretha's respect?

i can name drum pitches pretty well but its never bothered me that the toms/kick are in a different key than the song.

maybe now it will, thanks for that......

[bwong]

My take on this topic is that although drum sounds generally have an indefinite pitch, there still can be a predominant perceived pitch that can be tuned to the song. The partials (overtones) in a drum sound cannot be strictly harmonic to sound like a realistic drum. One article I read identified at least 150 identifiable non-harmonic partials in a sample of a real bass drum. So any song with real drums has plenty of non-harmonic notes floating around that are going to be mostly "out of key", plus drum sounds change in pitch over time.

If you create your own drum patch with a synth you can decide how "pitched" you want it to sound by how loud the fundamental note is compared to the partials. It is up to you to decide whether creating the sound this way is more desirable than searching through drum samples and retuning them til you get what you want.

Most of the songs on my websites listed in my sig use synthesized tuned drums, but since I write primarily in non-standard tunings and am not a great drum sound designer they may not present the best example of tuned drums for you, since the non-standard tunings will sound strange to you in the first place.

Whether or not you change the drum pitches to match chord changes is your call, do what sounds best to you in the context of the song. For instance my latest piece Alpha House Subprimer has a synthesized tuned bass drum, but I don't change it to match the chord changes because that would not in my opinion be appropriate to the musical style. In contrast, check out my previous effort Wannakkrakker for an example of tuned percussion playing an important role in the polyphony of the composition (IMO at least).

[jancivil]

there is an actual section in one thing I did where due to the way the toms were tuned the fill is very like a timpani part, and I double them up. in terms of in tune or not like a piano, not so much. not so much in tune that closely with each other in fact, but they go together in a way so you basically get a sort of rock timpani out of it.

BFD has a set of ten toms, called Decatoms which come with presets tuned specifically as tone rows, minor pentatonic and the like. I haven't trotted 'em out yet. in the 80's simmons drums were tuned for effect pretty particularly.