Hi guys, in several songs when it has a piano and voice, usually the piano play diferent notes from the voice/melody.
What would be the best approaches to that?
Pentatonic scale, just follow the melody(voice), usually it plays notes when the singer are not singing, in between words, for those moments...what the songs you know,hear uses,what the composer/arranger usually does? Like best practices.
examples:
@ 0:55...piano and voice composition:
Thanks.
Piano and Voice...Composition
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- KVRer
- 2 posts since 19 Jan, 2009 from VA
umm... those are called "chords".ecsmix wrote:Hi guys, in several songs when it has a piano and voice, usually the piano play diferent notes from the voice/melody.
What would be the best approaches to that?
Pentatonic scale, just follow the melody(voice), usually it plays notes when the singer are not singing, in between words, for those moments...what the songs you know,hear uses,what the composer/arranger usually does? Like best practices.
examples:
@ 0:55...piano and voice composition:
Thanks.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 212 posts since 5 Jun, 2006
No Garcia, that's not what I am talking about. chords,triads,major,minor, 7th,nothing like that. I am talking about what would be the most used technics to harmonize a voice.
Your answer, off course with chords and single notes and a musical instrument..........
You could follow the melody(voice) or do something else, usually they don't play the chord notes altogether, usually is one note at a time.
If you wanna do something diferent from the usual, what would it be.
Like a jazz musician, improvizing. besides using 7ths and pentatoniC.
Tell the best practices(most common) and something with a twist or in this case since we have a vocal there's no much you could do, otherwise will sound strange?
In those examples, what they are using?
Your answer, off course with chords and single notes and a musical instrument..........
You could follow the melody(voice) or do something else, usually they don't play the chord notes altogether, usually is one note at a time.
If you wanna do something diferent from the usual, what would it be.
Like a jazz musician, improvizing. besides using 7ths and pentatoniC.
Tell the best practices(most common) and something with a twist or in this case since we have a vocal there's no much you could do, otherwise will sound strange?
In those examples, what they are using?
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- KVRist
- 211 posts since 28 Apr, 2009 from Ft. Lauderdale, FL
You are asking a very big question. I would say there is no best approach, since best is subjective, but there are several objectively good, common approaches to composing, arranging and keyboard playing that could be considered best practices for their respective musical styles.
Yes, they are playing chords. Both examples sound like to me to be mainly a vamp between the I chord and the IV chord (I could be wrong since I'm not in front of a piano to try it out). This is probably the most common chord movement in music and there are tons of things one can choose to do out of their musical bag of tricks that would sound good. I am not hearing much pentatonic playing in those examples, just pretty arpeggios and pretty jazz/soul/gospel licks.
Pentatonic scale can be a good place to start for a beginner keyboard player. Problem with pentatonic is that it can get stale and repetitive very quickly, so you have to be clever with it. Some easy ways of being clever with the pentatonic scale are using multiple pentatonic scales over the same key (i.e. in C minor, try playing F minor or G minor pentatonic) or using the pentatonic scale for more advanced harmonies. For example, if you play all 5 notes of the pentatonic scale at the same time and vary the bass note you can easily get some interesting sounds. Sometimes, you can get even more interesting sounds if you try some bass notes outside of the scale.
This question would be a lot easier for me to answer in person sitting at a piano with you. My wife writes melodies and lyrics all the time that I have to create harmonies and music tracks to, so I am pretty good at doing what you want to do. I will try to help you as much as I can but please understand it only took me my whole lifetime to get where I'm at musically and I'm still learning new things every day! Maybe it would be best if you gave an example of a melody you want harmonized, what style of music it is and the tempo and I could do so for you and explain what I did and why. You can pick whatever melody you want; it doesn't matter. My way would be a way, not THE way. There's more than one way to do it.
The bottom line is most good composers/arrangers usually have an excellent ear for music and/or are very well trained in music theory and composition (formally or informally). I think you should make sure you are brilliant in the basics of music theory first, and then you will be able to hear and apply all the things other people are doing musically and even come up with some of your own cool stuff. Check out a website called musictheory.net for free music theory lessons, ear training and sight reading drills.
Yes, they are playing chords. Both examples sound like to me to be mainly a vamp between the I chord and the IV chord (I could be wrong since I'm not in front of a piano to try it out). This is probably the most common chord movement in music and there are tons of things one can choose to do out of their musical bag of tricks that would sound good. I am not hearing much pentatonic playing in those examples, just pretty arpeggios and pretty jazz/soul/gospel licks.
Pentatonic scale can be a good place to start for a beginner keyboard player. Problem with pentatonic is that it can get stale and repetitive very quickly, so you have to be clever with it. Some easy ways of being clever with the pentatonic scale are using multiple pentatonic scales over the same key (i.e. in C minor, try playing F minor or G minor pentatonic) or using the pentatonic scale for more advanced harmonies. For example, if you play all 5 notes of the pentatonic scale at the same time and vary the bass note you can easily get some interesting sounds. Sometimes, you can get even more interesting sounds if you try some bass notes outside of the scale.
This question would be a lot easier for me to answer in person sitting at a piano with you. My wife writes melodies and lyrics all the time that I have to create harmonies and music tracks to, so I am pretty good at doing what you want to do. I will try to help you as much as I can but please understand it only took me my whole lifetime to get where I'm at musically and I'm still learning new things every day! Maybe it would be best if you gave an example of a melody you want harmonized, what style of music it is and the tempo and I could do so for you and explain what I did and why. You can pick whatever melody you want; it doesn't matter. My way would be a way, not THE way. There's more than one way to do it.
The bottom line is most good composers/arrangers usually have an excellent ear for music and/or are very well trained in music theory and composition (formally or informally). I think you should make sure you are brilliant in the basics of music theory first, and then you will be able to hear and apply all the things other people are doing musically and even come up with some of your own cool stuff. Check out a website called musictheory.net for free music theory lessons, ear training and sight reading drills.
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- KVRist
- 350 posts since 11 May, 2008
When I write a vocal+piano score I usually write in 3 parts. The right hand of piano just do the bass (lose or in octaves). The left hand usually does the vocal melody exactly as it is. That means, it recreates the voice on pitch or an octave higher, plus the ornaments and solos.
In the middle (sometimes right hand jumping or sometimes left hand the thumb and second finger), I put chord notes to fill the gaps.
Think kind of a 3 part line that has to be done by 2 hands.
1 - bass
2 - chords
3 - melody + solos.
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/mus ... ong_p1.gif
Here you have a good example: the left hand piano is making the bass, the right hand the chords and the higher notes are exactly the ones as the melody in the voice.
In the middle (sometimes right hand jumping or sometimes left hand the thumb and second finger), I put chord notes to fill the gaps.
Think kind of a 3 part line that has to be done by 2 hands.
1 - bass
2 - chords
3 - melody + solos.
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/mus ... ong_p1.gif
Here you have a good example: the left hand piano is making the bass, the right hand the chords and the higher notes are exactly the ones as the melody in the voice.
Play fair and square!
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- KVRist
- 211 posts since 28 Apr, 2009 from Ft. Lauderdale, FL
In response to your second post, where you mention chord voicings: There are 2 types of chord voicings, closed and open. Closed are very basic, starting on the root, followed by the 3rd, etc. They are OK for lots of things, but they often won't work well in things like the YouTube musical examples you gave in your first post. The most common method of coming up with open chord voicings is called "drop" voicings. For example, take your closed voicing of C7: C, E, G, Bb. To open it up into a drop voicing, you drop one of the notes down an octave.
The most commonly used drop voicings are probably drop 2 voicings. They are played a lot on jazz guitar and also used for horn and string section arrangements. I like and use drop 4 voicings most often because they are super easy to play. A drop 4 voicing of C7 would be Bb in the left hand, and E, G & C (essentially a C triad in 1st inversion, the root note being the highest note) in the right. Use your left pinky to play a root of C below Bb for a nice, full sound.
If you don't understand everything above but would like to know more, check out this guy's website: http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/prim ... 1-1-4.html. He has a online book that covers this and a lot more material. I can't say I conceptualize music the same way he does, because there is a lot of unnecessary, confusing material on there, but it's something I think every jazz musician has been exposed to, so take from it what is useful and discard the rest.
The most commonly used drop voicings are probably drop 2 voicings. They are played a lot on jazz guitar and also used for horn and string section arrangements. I like and use drop 4 voicings most often because they are super easy to play. A drop 4 voicing of C7 would be Bb in the left hand, and E, G & C (essentially a C triad in 1st inversion, the root note being the highest note) in the right. Use your left pinky to play a root of C below Bb for a nice, full sound.
If you don't understand everything above but would like to know more, check out this guy's website: http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/prim ... 1-1-4.html. He has a online book that covers this and a lot more material. I can't say I conceptualize music the same way he does, because there is a lot of unnecessary, confusing material on there, but it's something I think every jazz musician has been exposed to, so take from it what is useful and discard the rest.