Looking for 90's eurodance sounds / techniques

[cjshamrock]

What kind of ROMplers were being used in the early 90's?

That's precisely the question. Does anyone have the music magazines of that era to shed any light on this?

[Wayne253]

I was curious about this myself. I was feeling nostalgic and listened to some old early 90's sounds like Londonbeat or even Cathy Dennis for that matter (damn, I had a few of those songs in my head for awhile)

was curious about the drum loop if it was a 909.

Oh man I was going through and found that organ sound on my M1 "la da dee la dee dow" good times and good laughs

[living sounds]

You ask for the BPM? Come on, that at least you can figure out for yourself.


As for the kick, this is how the did it: Use a regular TR-909 and layer it with another one, pitched up about an octave or 2.


As for recreating the actual sound, that's probably not as easy. Some was done in fairly big studios with good consoles, using synths like the Jupiters, MKS-80 next to the M1, JD-990 etc. romplers, nice samplers like the Emulator III and big reverb and FX like the 480l.

Others had small studios with just a sampler (like an older Roland), an Alpha Juno and a rompler all going into a small Mackie desk with a cheap chorus and reverb.

One thing very popular at the time were mid-80s 4-Operator FM-Synths.


The question remains why anyone would want to recreate this cheezy, eclectic stuff...

[Elektik404]

You ask for the BPM? Come on, that at least you can figure out for yourself.


As for the kick, this is how the did it: Use a regular TR-909 and layer it with another one, pitched up about an octave or 2.


As for recreating the actual sound, that's probably not as easy. Some was done in fairly big studios with good consoles, using synths like the Jupiters, MKS-80 next to the M1, JD-990 etc. romplers, nice samplers like the Emulator III and big reverb and FX like the 480l.

Others had small studios with just a sampler (like an older Roland), an Alpha Juno and a rompler all going into a small Mackie desk with a cheap chorus and reverb.

One thing very popular at the time were mid-80s 4-Operator FM-Synths.


The question remains why anyone would want to recreate this cheezy, eclectic stuff...

This might be a bit off topic but I was reading your reply and got curious, what software do you use to change the pitch by octaves ?

[djanthonyw]

M1 by far.

[living sounds]

This might be a bit off topic but I was reading your reply and got curious, what software do you use to change the pitch by octaves ?

Any sampler can do that.

[ozmoz2008]

Hi,

i'm looking for any infos about the production techniques/sound design/effects of classic 90's eurodance tunes.

What synths did they use at this time?

Vocals with big chorus and spreaded?

How much bpm?

BPM was almost always between 132 and 140, but mostly around 140(138-142)

We use a lot of M1 sounds, Roland S550, JXs, Some samplers FZ1 and Akai S-1000, some TXs and a couple of other synths.

The kick was often sampled from what was the most popular in the flavour of the month, to please DJs.

For vocals we use stacks, it is a lot more work than using Antares, but it gives that unique very powerful flavour to it.(Beatles, Def Leppard and many others have over use this technique) Delays were also very important in the tales(duck type)

It was a lot more painful doing vocals because you had to have the good looking chick that dance, but also have that powerful Abba like vocals.

There was some sort of "hi-energy" feel that was really fun in producing it though.

Have fun!

[D N A]

hehe, very nice topic. I love that kind of music - culture beat, 2 unlimited etc.

Everyone talks that these sounds were cheesy. Well, at least it wasnt detuned saw in 90 %

For example try to recreate (with VSTi) 2 Unlimited - The Real Thing, Tribal Dance or even Get Ready For This Maybe my skills are lacking but it's easier to recreate Justin Timberlake - Sexy Back, Deadmau5, "trance sounds" than some of these old tunes.

I think that the difference lies in tools. Now most producers use Logic, Ableton, Cubase etc. Everyone can have it, everyone can have Sylenth and try to recreate for example Airbase sounds (he likes Sylenth a lot ). In 90' all of these cheap tunes was completed in big studios with expensive gear unaccessible to average joe

I would say that sounds were generally more dry (less reverbs, delays) but hardware mastering did it's job great and at some point even most cheesy sound gained soul .

[ozmoz2008]

hehe, very nice topic. I love that kind of music - culture beat, 2 unlimited etc.

I would say that sounds were generally more dry (less reverbs, delays) but hardware mastering did it's job great and at some point even most cheesy sound gained soul .

Not for vocals, delays were really important but done in a tasty way. Reverbs were not as important as in the 80s sound, but still we use 480l,H3000 and PCM70 quite a lot. Mastering was not as important as it is today in most pop music out there. The dynamics in 12 inch was quite good anyway, the basses were quite deep and punchy.

The synths were not that wet either. And musically a lot was lying in the harmony feel(vocals, pads etc.), totally different than in house for example.

I think that Trance is a really close parent to 90s Euro except for the vocal part, and artist representation. But I do agree that there is a lot of not so well produce trance, mainly because VSTs are more accessible. It's not everybody that had the chance to gain some experience in producing, which was a big part of the process in Euro.

The funny thing is that we all though it would not last, which seems to be false, I see more and more interest in Euro, it's really interesting.

Who could predict the future! Not me.

[dark_virus]

I can't understand people blaming old fashions. What do you think will be talked about these nasty electro-house tracks of today?

About the production: something I found common in these tracks are the drum layers and some "mudiness". They threw anything on the drum loop (congas, filtered breakbeats, hihat patterns, shakers, sampled acoustic drum hits etc. That's in contrast with today's minimalism, so we have a massive groove going. Listen to some Capitain Hollywood, Snap! and Maxx tracks and you'll see. These differ from artists like Culture Beat and 2 Unilimited, since they used a more "cleaner" sound.

And, to be honest, I don't believe most of these tracks were produced on state of art studios. That's a matter of analog stuff being used rather than expensive tools in itself.

[ozmoz2008]

That's in contrast with today's minimalism, so we have a massive groove going. Listen to some Capitain Hollywood, Snap! and Maxx tracks and you'll see. These differ from artists like Culture Beat and 2 Unilimited, since they used a more "cleaner" sound.

And, to be honest, I don't believe most of these tracks were produced on state of art studios. That's a matter of analog stuff being used rather than expensive tools in itself.

I agree that minimalist music is more "clean" in a certain sense, but could also lack the feel of the harmony aspect in Euro. And we were not using pure analogue gear all the time, these samplers were quite digital so does M1 and Roland S550. In fact I hear more "analogy" sounds in minimalist music than we use to work with in Euro.(That rubber effect)

As for not being produce with top-notch equipment, it really depends on each and every production, but indeed it was the case most of the time, believe it or not. (from my own personal experience)

The arrangements were done in little set-ups then produce at a higher level with qualified engineers and producers. It doesn't seems to be the case all the time these days(because of the lack of experience in producing). We also use to have a lot of remix done by DJs etc, so sometimes some remixes were done is smaller facilities, we were only supplying the acappellas, and often they use samples and loops from many sources, not sounding top-notch all the time.

In fact, there is a lot of good stuff in all periods of music, at different levels, today isn't different in that regard. The OP is asking how Euro was made, so we try to feed him some techniques used, not impressions but facts.

[dark_virus]

My point was about the groove itself, since I can't speak about the production (but this don't forbid me to comment and learn about the matter)

And when I say "minimalist" I'm not refering to the style itself, but the production philosopy instead. If you took an 2009 ordinary electro house track, you don't see much more than a kick, snare, hihat and a detuned saw. OTOH, the ordinary Euro tracks of the 90s used these somewhat more busy paterns, with bassline, lead synth, pad/string, acid line, filtered loops, etc.

The OP is asking for production techniques, and it includes the arrangement side of things, because Eurodance isn't only about the gear used, but how it were applied musicaly speaking. That's my opinion, though.

[ozmoz2008]

My point was about the groove itself, since I can't speak about the production (but this don't forbid me to comment and learn about the matter)

And when I say "minimalist" I'm not refering to the style itself, but the production philosopy instead. If you took an 2009 ordinary electro house track, you don't see much more than a kick, snare, hihat and a detuned saw. OTOH, the ordinary Euro tracks of the 90s used these somewhat more busy paterns, with bassline, lead synth, pad/string, acid line, filtered loops, etc.

The OP is asking for production techniques, and it includes the arrangement side of things, because Eurodance isn't only about the gear used, but how it were applied musicaly speaking. That's my opinion, though.

You have all the rights to say your opinion. No prob. And you are right about a more complex and "harmonic" as in "doing lines in harmony" approach. The whole concept in arrangements was evolving around these. The less interesting part was the famous "I want that kik sound" which was literally THAT kik sound. Coming from a more pop and acoustic production side, it was for me at the time quite outrageous to sample other artist bass drums, but that was also part of the process.

But I agree totaly with your present post.

BTW house music even in the 90s was quite minimalistic too, and tends to use soul vocals pitches liners, instead of a story like in Euro. We did use verses and choruses and pre/post-chorus in Euro, which was closer to pop. Also the instrumental line as a bridge.(this is where we usually put the "want to feel analog" sound)

[Epiphany]

Not sure if people are still into this thread but I was suprised how complicated some of you made this stuff sound. Yes all this music went through analogue processing, mixing desks, valve compressors and so forth, that was the engineering side.

However on the production side, I reckon (from distant memory and listening now) you're talking about a small core of relatively inexpensive digital synths with a bit of analogue thrown in. You've got to remember this was the era just before the crazy-money analogue revival really kicked off.

DX7/100/TX's for bass, as standard. Solid Bass or Lately Bass preset in 90% of cases.
M1 for piano.
JV1080 for piano, strings and "dreamy" pads, plus FX programs.
Jupiter8 for the classic, main PWM string sounds.
Junos for lead sounds and sometimes bass.
909 for drums.

On top of that most of the sounds were presets, maybe effected or edited a bit, but presets nonetheless.

And yes, layering classic breakbeats like the apache with a 909 kick drum = instant 1990s.

[randyandyvandaman]

Try the Waldorf Q collection. It was a nineties synth.
There is 2GB of samples on Music tech issue can't remember. Good for bass, pads, leads etc .

I have the DVD in front of me. I did listen recently and this could be helpful if you don't have access to the hardware.

Hope this helps.

Cheers